Transcript - Interview: Kal Penn Interviews Joe Biden for The Daily Show on Comedy Central - March 13, 2023 | Factba.se

Kal Penn

00:00:00 - 00:00:02 ()

Mr. President, welcome to The Daily Show.

Joe Biden

00:00:02 - 00:00:03 ()

Well, welcome back to the White House.

Kal Penn

00:00:03 - 00:00:31 ()

Thank you. It's very nice to be back. I was trying to figure out when the last time you and I had a conversation was, and I realized it was November 2016 at a very diverse Diwali party that you hosted just a few weeks after Trump became the president-elect. And I remember that you described that night as an Irish Catholic vice president and a Muslim Gold Star family celebrating a reception observing a Hindu holiday.

Joe Biden

00:00:31 - 00:00:32 ()

Kal Penn

00:00:32 - 00:00:40 ()

It's -- well, exactly. That's how I felt. I mean, I remember just feeling so positive and so much hope there. And then --

Joe Biden

00:00:40 - 00:00:42 ()

That's Mr. Khan, right?

Kal Penn

00:00:42 - 00:00:59 ()

That was Mr. Khan. Yes, exactly. Then, I remember just four years of -- of policy and vitriol under Trump. And now, things feel more divided. So, I -- I was curious how you feel that we can stay hopeful and -- and how can we get the country to unify.

Joe Biden

00:00:59 - 00:01:04 ()

The truth of the matter is that I've never more optimistic in my entire life about --

Kal Penn

00:01:04 - 00:01:04 ()

Joe Biden

00:01:04 - 00:01:29 ()

No, I mean it, now. I tell you what. Look, if you think about it, the reason I had not -- given my words to -- I hadn't planned on running again. I had lost my son, Beau. It was a tough, tough time. And I wasn't going to run at all for real. And then, remember what happened in Charlottesville when those folks came out of the fields at night with torches and swastikas --

Kal Penn

00:01:29 - 00:01:30 ()

Joe Biden

00:01:30 - 00:01:56 ()

The white supremacist. And a young woman was killed. I spoke to her mom. Then, President Trump said, "There are very fine people on both sides." And I gave my word, that's what I said, "I'm going to do this." But I was worried about doing it because I knew how bitter it would be. And so, I got a phone call from my -- true story, from my eldest granddaughter, saying, "Can we have a family meeting?" You probably aren't aware, it's around here.

Joe Biden

00:01:56 - 00:02:20 ()

We have a tradition in the Biden family. Any child can ask for a family meeting. That doesn't often happen, but you take it seriously. So, my grandchildren, my four granddaughters and grandson, Beau's children and Hunter's children, came down on a Saturday. And we sat and talked, and they said -- trying to convince and they said, "We know you're thinking of running, pop, but you ought to do it.

Joe Biden

00:02:20 - 00:02:39 ()

Daddy wants you to do it," talking about Beau and the -- and I said, "Well, it's going to be pretty tough." And they said, "You got to do it." And we decided to do it. And I did it for three reasons: one, to restore the soul of this country. That's not who we are. We're a decent, honorable country that cares.

Joe Biden

00:02:39 - 00:02:58 ()

We really are. We still are. Second one is to, you know, begin to take care of the middle class because if the middle class does well, the poor have a real shot, and the wealthy do very well. And thirdly, to unite the country. And at the time, thought -- people thought, "Well, maybe the first two, but you can never unite the country." But look what we did.

Joe Biden

00:02:58 - 00:03:18 ()

We got a lot done. No one thought I could ever pass the -- the infrastructure bill. No one thought I could ever do anything about making sure that we took care of people with disabilities and -- and drug prices and whole range of no one thought we could do anything on the environment. No one thought we could do anything about -- about same-sex marriage.

Joe Biden

00:03:18 - 00:03:24 ()

I mean, we did -- we did -- not all of it, but a significant portion of it was done in a bipartisan way.

Kal Penn

00:03:24 - 00:03:52 ()

When I was a White House aide, I remember having meetings in this room on climate. They didn't always go so well. And I never would have imagined 12 years ago that something as sweeping on climate as the -- the Inflation Reduction Act would have happened. So, my -- my -- my question really, and I was watching all of this unfold, is who or what created the political space for you to take that kind of action?

Joe Biden

00:03:52 - 00:04:14 ()

Young people. Young people. The generation -- that generation between 18 and 35 now, they're the ones that created the space. They had enough of it. They had enough of it. And so, what I did was when I tried to figure out whether I could put something together, I met with them. We had rallies. We had -- I mean, they showed up in the 2020 election.

Joe Biden

00:04:14 - 00:04:39 ()

They showed up in the 2022 election. And we passed the largest environmental plan in all of history, over $368 billion. We got it done. And what -- and what happened was Mother Nature let her wrath be seen over the last two years. For example, I have traveled on helicopter over more forest area burned to the ground than the entire state of Maryland.

Joe Biden

00:04:39 - 00:05:04 ()

That's how much has burned to the ground. Floods, droughts, all the things, and so people can't deny it anymore. They can't deny the fact. And I've traveled the world. I've gone to all the cop meetings around the world, meaning the meetings on climate. If we don't keep the temperature from going above 1.5 degrees Celsius, raised, then we're in real trouble.

Joe Biden

00:05:04 - 00:05:41 ()

That whole generation is damned. I mean, it's not hyperbole. Really, truly in trouble. And that's why the first meeting I had with the so-called, you know, G-7, the -- the largest economies in the world, democracies in the world, the first thing we talked about was they want to talk about what was my initiative on -- on energy, on dealing with moving toward -- for example, I called all the automakers and truck makers, and I asked them to come to the South Lawn the first year and to try to talk them into it, doing something more, going electric.

Joe Biden

00:05:41 - 00:05:53 ()

And within five weeks, all of them agreed, they're going to go electric, 50% by 2030. And by 2050, all electric. And I think we can do it.

Kal Penn

00:05:53 - 00:05:58 ()

You're -- you're also responsible for reviewing drilling and oil production.

Joe Biden

00:05:58 - 00:05:59 ()

Kal Penn

00:05:59 - 00:06:07 ()

What would you say to those young people who want you to continue to be their champion but might not think that you're going far enough or fast enough on climate?

Joe Biden

00:06:07 - 00:06:16 ()

Well, first of all, we're going to fashion anyone's ever gone. We're going to need fossil fuels for at least the next 10 years. It's not like tomorrow, we can turn it all off.

Kal Penn

00:06:16 - 00:06:17 ()

Joe Biden

00:06:17 - 00:06:27 ()

Number one. And so, in addition to that, we -- things got really complicated when Putin put 185,000 forces into Ukraine --

Kal Penn

00:06:27 - 00:06:28 ()

Joe Biden

00:06:28 - 00:06:48 ()

And having a profound impact on their energy ability to be able to keep the heat on in the winter and keep things moving. And so, we're going to need fossil fuel. What we have to do is we have to -- I've -- I've said no more drilling off our ocean, I mean, the whole range. But it still has to be -- there has to be the ability to generate some energy.

Joe Biden

00:06:48 - 00:07:12 ()

But we can get rid of coal much more rapidly. And -- and by the way, for example, I was up in Massachusetts on the largest coal-producing electric facilities in the nation. Well, guess what? We hooked it up to wind technology. And so, now, it's cheaper. We can do solar. We can do wind cheaper than we can do fossil fuels.

Joe Biden

00:07:12 - 00:07:19 ()

So, it's a matter of transitioning. But it's not like you can cut everything off immediately.

Kal Penn

00:07:19 - 00:07:24 ()

You -- you obviously understand the existential threat that -- that young people feel when it comes to climate.

Joe Biden

00:07:24 - 00:07:25 ()

Kal Penn

00:07:25 - 00:07:33 ()

How do you balance that with the immediate concerns of babysitting Congress or getting -- getting -- getting 51 or 60 votes on some of this?

Joe Biden

00:07:33 - 00:07:41 ()

Well, look, I've been relative -- I'm going to be careful here.

Kal Penn

00:07:41 - 00:07:42 ()

Joe Biden

00:07:42 - 00:07:43 ()

Relatively successful.

Kal Penn

00:07:43 - 00:07:44 ()

Joe Biden

00:07:44 - 00:08:05 ()

In working across the aisle. There is a MAGA Republican portion of the party. It makes up about a third of the Republican Party. I've had more than half a dozen Republican senators I've known for years over the last two years come to me individually, and I promise I'd never mentioned their names. And I'll go to my grave, never mentioned --

Kal Penn

00:08:05 - 00:08:06 ()

You can tell me later.

Joe Biden

00:08:06 - 00:08:32 ()

No, I'm not going to tell -- I -- I mean, seriously, I've never broken my word -- and saying, "Joe, I agree with you, but if I -- if I do anything publicly, they're going to primary in me, I'll lose." The Republican Party is going through a significant transition, and we're going to see in the next two years how they end up, whether the MAGA Republicans control the party or we get back to conservative.

Joe Biden

00:08:32 - 00:08:48 ()

Like, for example, a guy as tough as can be is the majority leader of the United States -- the minority in the United States Senate, McConnell. But he's straight. He's a traditional conservative. He's straight. What he says, he does. He probably doesn't even want me saying this, probably hurt his reputation.

Joe Biden

00:08:48 - 00:09:06 ()

But there's a lot of people in the Republican Party who are traditional Republican, conservative Republicans that you can deal with. But, you know, these -- you know, the gentlewoman from the state of Georgia and the mountains up there and others, [inaudible] anyway.

Kal Penn

00:09:06 - 00:09:10 ()

That's very diplomatic. I would have used different language. But you're -- yeah. You have a different --

Joe Biden

00:09:10 - 00:09:28 ()

But no -- but it's -- it's a -- there's an existential question that the Republican Party is going to have to face, and it's going to determine what happens in the next couple of years. But my focus is just stay focused -- focused on the things that matter. We've got to deal with the climate. We've got to deal with civil liberties and voting rights.

Joe Biden

00:09:28 - 00:09:41 ()

We've got to deal with issues relating to economic growth. Look, in -- in this period, I inherited -- I think it's fair to say, a gigantic mess, economically and politically.

Kal Penn

00:09:41 - 00:09:42 ()

Joe Biden

00:09:42 - 00:10:08 ()

We've created 12 million new jobs since I've been president, more than any president created in four years. We've generated so much growth. We've -- we've created 800,000 manufacturing jobs with the bill that became a bipartisan bill with no one thought could happen, the -- the CHIPS and Science bill. We used to invest 2% of our GDP in research and development.

Joe Biden

00:10:08 - 00:10:30 ()

That's why we are the nation we were. Well, guess what? We decided to start. We -- we ended up being No. 8 or 10 instead of No. 1. Well, now, we're doing it again through the CHIPS and Science bill. Guess what? Commitments for $300 billion in investments over the next 10 years to build these CHIPS. We invented the CHIPS.

Joe Biden

00:10:30 - 00:10:42 ()

We made them -- we made them much more sophisticated. We used to be anyway. So, there's so much going on that the country's hungry to move, I think, and I'm confident we can do it.

Kal Penn

00:10:42 - 00:10:50 ()

It's reassuring to hear you talk about the ways young people can continue to get involved and that you feel like there's still bipartisan hope there if it's --

Joe Biden

00:10:50 - 00:11:14 ()

Oh, there is. By the way, I mean, look, again, if I -- if we had -- had this conversation immediately after Trump lost, although he's not sure he did, but -- and I told you, we were going to get more done in two years than almost any president has done, period, and much of it in a bipartisan way, I think everybody would have looked at me like, "What's this guy been drinking?

Joe Biden

00:11:14 - 00:11:34 ()

What's going on here?" But we have. We have. And I've been able -- we've been able to. The leadership of the Democratic Party has been able to hold a Democratic Congress together, and we picked up a few Republicans along the way. And I think it's beginning to bear fruit that it's hard to deny that it works.

Kal Penn

00:11:34 - 00:11:43 ()

Speaking of young people, the Supreme Court is considering striking down your student debt relief decision. What's the plan if that happens?

Joe Biden

00:11:43 - 00:12:02 ()

Well, first of all, the constitutional scholars I've spoken to say the people who challenged it should have no standing, meaning the court is ultimately -- as much as they want to rule, they're going to -- I think they're going to have to rule that it was appropriate for what I did, number one. Number two, if you think about it, we had this PPP program.

Joe Biden

00:12:02 - 00:12:22 ()

That is the program during the pandemic. People lost their businesses because they had to shut down, the restaurants closed, and -- and so, we provided billions of dollars, significantly more than -- than helping students with their debt. And a number of the very people who criticized me in Congress actually got benefits in the program.

Kal Penn

00:12:22 - 00:12:22 ()

Joe Biden

00:12:22 - 00:12:25 ()

You don't hear them talking about it, right?

Kal Penn

00:12:25 - 00:12:25 ()

Joe Biden

00:12:25 - 00:12:47 ()

The average student, who will benefit from my student loan forgiveness program, is somebody making less than 70 -- 70 -- 90%, makes $70,000 or less. They're just trying to get out of the hole. They're just trying to get started. They're just trying to get up and running. And so, it is overwhelming in the interest of the economy.

Joe Biden

00:12:47 - 00:13:00 ()

It's a fair thing to do. And it's going to generate economic growth that's significant. I understand them worrying. I understand. I don't know whether people realize, a lot of parents realize --

Kal Penn

00:13:00 - 00:13:00 ()

Joe Biden

00:13:00 - 00:13:36 ()

How much of a burden this is. You get out of school. There were no jobs when you graduated because -- initially because of the pandemic. You've got a debt that is, in most cases, exceeding $10,000 loan you got -- or grant you got. And -- and it's really a gigantic burden. You want to grow the economy. You want these people being able to go out and make a down payment on a home, make -- be able to go out and start a business, be able to go out and get -- be free to the debt so they can invest in things they care about.

Joe Biden

00:13:36 - 00:13:39 ()

And it just is so shortsighted if they don't.

Kal Penn

00:13:39 - 00:13:57 ()

I wanted to -- I wanted to ask you a slightly different question. So, my partner, Josh, and I have been engaged for the last five years, which really only means that every auntie and uncle that I have is beyond disappointed that there hasn't been a wedding yet. But -- but Cardi B is going to marry us, apparently, officiate our wedding, which would -- which would be nice.

Kal Penn

00:13:57 - 00:14:24 ()

But my -- my question for you, Mr. President, is you codified support for same-sex marriage and interracial marriages like -- like ours. I'm curious what your evolution was like on marriage equality and what the federal government might be able to do to protect LGBTQ Americans, especially trans kids who are dealing with all these regressive state laws that are popping up right now.

Joe Biden

00:14:24 - 00:14:28 ()

I can remember exactly where my epiphany was.

Kal Penn

00:14:28 - 00:14:29 ()

Joe Biden

00:14:29 - 00:14:52 ()

I hadn't thought much about it to tell you the truth. And I was a -- I was a senior in high school, and I wanted to get a job, being turned out the only -- it turned out I was the only Caucasian lifeguard in the projects in the city of Wilmington, the big swimming pools. And my dad was dropping me off to go in and get an application to city hall in Wilmington, Rodney Square, it's called.

Joe Biden

00:14:52 - 00:15:07 ()

And I remember I'm about to get out of the car, and I looked to my right, and two well-dressed men in suits kissed each other. I mean, they gave each other a kiss. And then one went -- looked like he was heading to the DuPont building, and one looked like he's headed to the Hercules corporation building.

Joe Biden

00:15:07 - 00:15:37 ()

And I'll never forget, I turned and looked at my dad. He said, "Joey, it's simple. They love each other. It's simple. I'm not joking. It's simple. They love each other." And it's never been -- it's -- it's never been -- it's just that simple. And I remember -- you may remember because you may have been here when I -- in the -- our last administration with Barack, I went on "Meet the Press."

Kal Penn

00:15:37 - 00:15:38 ()

Joe Biden

00:15:38 - 00:15:58 ()

And they asked me about their show. I was to tell them I had visited a family in another state, and -- and I watched these two -- this gay couple raising two kids and watching them run in and throw their arms around daddy and so on and so. And -- and I -- and I told them, I said -- they said, "Well, what do you think?" Russert asked me.

Joe Biden

00:15:58 - 00:16:23 ()

And I said, "I think people should be able to get married. Married. It doesn't matter whether it's -- whether it's same sex or heterosexual couple. You should be able to be married." What is the problem? So, listen to your auntie and your uncle, and get married. Do it now. Don't wait. Now, transgender kids is a really harder thing.

Joe Biden

00:16:23 - 00:16:44 ()

What's going on in Florida is what my mother would say close to sinful. I mean, it's just terrible what they're doing. It's not like, you know, a kid wakes up one morning and says, "You know, I decided I want to become a man," or, "I want to become a woman," or, "I want to change." I mean, what -- what are they thinking about here?

Joe Biden

00:16:44 - 00:17:07 ()

They're human beings. They love. They have feelings. They have inclinations that are -- I mean, it just to me is -- I don't know. It's cruel. And the way we do it is we make sure we pass legislation like we passed on same-sex marriage. You mess with that, you're breaking the law, and you're going to be held accountable.

Kal Penn

00:17:07 - 00:17:10 ()

Thank you, sir. I also can tell that like some auntie or my mom probably texted you beforehand if --

Joe Biden

00:17:10 - 00:17:11 ()

Kal Penn

00:17:11 - 00:17:13 ()

You're trying to pressure me to.

Joe Biden

00:17:13 - 00:17:15 ()

No, no, but get moving, man.

Kal Penn

00:17:15 - 00:17:15 ()

Joe Biden

00:17:15 - 00:17:17 ()

I don't want to hear you can't do it.

Kal Penn

00:17:17 - 00:17:33 ()

The -- I know we're -- we're on limited time, so I just want to ask you. Looking ahead, there are a lot of names floated. It's a crowded, crowded field. Who should be the next permanent host of The Daily Show.

Joe Biden

00:17:33 - 00:17:36 ()

Depending on how you edit this program, you.

Kal Penn

00:17:36 - 00:17:43 ()

Yes. OK, that's a good answer. Solid answer. Solid answer. I don't think we need to edit anything then. Thank you, Mr. President.

Joe Biden

00:17:43 - 00:17:44 ()

Kal Penn

00:17:44 - 00:17:46 ()

Thank you for your time, and I appreciate it very much.

Joe Biden

00:17:46 - 00:17:47 ()

Thank you. Thank you. Again, welcome back.

Kal Penn

00:17:47 - 00:17:49 ()

Thank you. Great to be back.

Note

00:17:49 - 00:17:53 ()

[Comedy Central released an edited segment featured Joe Biden giving Kal Penn a tour of the Oval Office suite. The following is a transcript of that segment.]

Joe Biden

00:17:53 - 00:17:55 ()

Welcome to a place you spent some time.

Kal Penn

00:17:55 - 00:17:58 ()

Thank you, sir. I -- the fireplace has never been on when I've been in here.

Joe Biden

00:17:58 - 00:18:04 ()

I tell you what, I have it on all the time. It's kind of humbling walking in here.

Kal Penn

00:18:04 - 00:18:05 ()

Joe Biden

00:18:05 - 00:18:24 ()

I mean, for real. I had my brother, Jimmy, come in and, you know, pick the rug and the desk and all that stuff. And make a long story short, and I come walking in like 5 o'clock on Inauguration Day. And I walked in and I said, "Jeez," I said, "I've never seen Franklin Roosevelt. I'm an admirer.

Kal Penn

00:18:24 - 00:18:24 ()

Joe Biden

00:18:24 - 00:18:27 ()

But it's always George Washington's small portrait there.

Kal Penn

00:18:27 - 00:18:28 ()

Joe Biden

00:18:28 - 00:18:44 ()

And Abraham Lincoln. And -- and Jon Meacham, the president's historian, Jimmy had called him for some help. And he looked and he said, "Because no one's ever inherited a world economy in as much disarray as he had." And I said, "Oh, that's wonderful."

Kal Penn

00:18:44 - 00:18:46 ()

There you go. That tracks.

Joe Biden

00:18:46 - 00:19:04 ()

And then, I said, "Well, why Lincoln?" He said, "The country has never been as divided since Lincoln was president." But what I did was I wanted to be able to sit here in my desk and look out. And I only had two political heroes when I was getting involved, the fellow over there, Martin Luther King, and Bobby Kennedy.

Kal Penn

00:19:04 - 00:19:04 ()

Joe Biden

00:19:04 - 00:19:17 ()

I -- I was a great admirer of John Kennedy, but I can never picture John Kennedy at my kitchen table. I could kind of picture maybe -- and then, the two people who I got involved -- engaged with is Cesar Chavez --

Kal Penn

00:19:17 - 00:19:17 ()

Joe Biden

00:19:17 - 00:19:31 ()

Because I got -- not involved, but I supported verbally the farm workers union. They were trying to organize in Delaware when I was running as a 29-year-old kid. And his granddaughter works for me. And then, Rosa Parks, who's over here.

Kal Penn

00:19:31 - 00:19:32 ()

Joe Biden

00:19:32 - 00:19:50 ()

And so, I tried to -- I tried to make it kind of warm like -- I thought about, no, the other guy never showed up on Inauguration Day, so I didn't have to worry about it. But it's kind of neat. And the things I've done in here. Like, for example, I the moon rock over here.

Kal Penn

00:19:50 - 00:19:54 ()

All right. I'm a huge NASA fan, a big astronomy fan.

Joe Biden

00:19:54 - 00:19:55 ()

Are you really? Oh.

Kal Penn

00:19:55 - 00:19:56 ()

This is very cool.

Joe Biden

00:19:56 - 00:20:02 ()

Well, this is cool. That's an actual moon rock. And one of the -- you know, that rover they have up there --

Kal Penn

00:20:02 - 00:20:02 ()

Joe Biden

00:20:02 - 00:20:05 ()

My name is in the back with other presidents.

Kal Penn

00:20:05 - 00:20:05 ()

Oh, that's cool.

Joe Biden

00:20:05 - 00:20:10 ()

It's really cool. But I want to show you something really cool. Come on back here.

Kal Penn

00:20:10 - 00:20:11 ()

Joe Biden

00:20:11 - 00:20:12 ()

Not many people come back this way, but come on in.

Kal Penn

00:20:12 - 00:20:24 ()

Thank you, sir. Oh, yeah. Not only are we seeing the Oval Office, we're also getting a rare tour of the president's private study. This is like the world's most dignified episode of MTV Cribs.

Joe Biden

00:20:24 - 00:20:36 ()

By the way. That is a Wyeth painting by Jamie Wyeth, the son. And he told me the Kennedy family didn't like it because it made them look too contemplative.

Kal Penn

00:20:36 - 00:20:36 ()

Joe Biden

00:20:36 - 00:20:37 ()

Kal Penn

00:20:37 - 00:20:38 ()

Joe Biden

00:20:38 - 00:20:41 ()

I know. I think it's great. But anyway, that's the house I was raised in at Scranton.

Kal Penn

00:20:41 - 00:20:43 ()

That's awesome. Wow.

Joe Biden

00:20:43 - 00:20:45 ()

Or as they say, Scranton.

Kal Penn

00:20:45 - 00:20:45 ()

Joe Biden

00:20:45 - 00:20:48 ()

So, I went and spoke to the Kennedy Library a couple of times.

Kal Penn

00:20:48 - 00:20:49 ()

Joe Biden

00:20:49 - 00:20:57 ()

The last time I spoke there, I get handed this by Caroline Kennedy. And it's that famous letter he wrote.

Kal Penn

00:20:57 - 00:20:58 ()

Joe Biden

00:20:58 - 00:21:13 ()

And this is the actual copy. And it's -- you know, "Why am I going? We chose to go to the moon in this decade because that goal will serve the origins of measure by the best of us." And it goes on and on.

Kal Penn

00:21:13 - 00:21:19 ()

Well, that's -- I mean, the -- the -- just even that top line, "No prejudice, no hate in outer space."

Joe Biden

00:21:19 - 00:21:19 ()

Kal Penn

00:21:19 - 00:21:28 ()

I don't know if you have any tattoos. I've got some from the NASA Voyager, which was launched in '77, and the Golden Record, which had, you know, science --

Joe Biden

00:21:28 - 00:21:28 ()

Kal Penn

00:21:28 - 00:21:30 ()

Joe Biden

00:21:30 - 00:21:30 ()

Kal Penn

00:21:30 - 00:21:32 ()

But no politics, no war --

Joe Biden

00:21:32 - 00:21:32 ()

Kal Penn

00:21:32 - 00:21:43 ()

No religion, none of the things that divide us. And so, it's just the -- the idea of hope through exploration. Unfortunately, before the president showed me all of his tattoos, it was time to go.

Joe Biden

00:21:43 - 00:21:44 ()

Kal Penn

00:21:44 - 00:21:49 ()

Thank you, sir. I really appreciate your time, and thank you so much for the stories and the -- the Oval tour.