Factbase Transcripts

Joe Biden

Very Positive

00:00:00-00:00:08 (9 sec)

"I have a brief statement, and then I'll be happy to take your questions." 1

Joe Biden

Very Positive

00:00:00-00:00:39 (40 sec)

"There's setting a great example for us. Okay, folks, welcome. I'm sure that my colleagues and I will be saying thank you after this is all over, but in the meantime, I just wanted to welcome you, let you know we're doing." 1

Joe Biden

Neutral

00:00:08-00:00:21 (13 sec)

"First, I just finished, I thought, a productive meeting with the congressional leadership about the path forward to make sure America does not default -- I emphasize does not default on its debt for the first time in history." 2

Joe Biden

Leans Positive

00:00:39-00:00:55 (16 sec)

"We're not going to take any questions now. We're going to get started. We're going to solve all the world's problems. Thank you." 2

Joe Biden

Very Positive

00:00:21-00:00:36 (15 sec)

"And I'm pleased but not surprised to hear Republican Minority Leader of the United States Senate saying that -- at our meeting that the United States is not going to default. It never has, and it never will. And he's absolutely correct." 3

Note

Neutral

00:00:55-00:00:55 ( sec)

"[Crosstalk]" 3

Joe Biden

Somewhat Positive

00:00:36-00:00:42 (6 sec)

"We continue -- we agree to continue our discussions, and we're going to meet again on Friday." 4

Chuck Schumer

Very Positive

00:00:55-00:00:59 (4 sec)

"She was good. She got a clear shot [Inaudible]" 4

Joe Biden

Very Negative

00:00:42-00:01:15 (32 sec)

"In the meantime, our staffs -- we're going to meet today and daily between now and then. And everyone in the meeting understood the risk of default. Our economy would fall into a significant recession. It would devastate retirement accounts, increase borrowing cost. According to Moody's, nearly 8 million Americans would lose their jobs. And our international reputation would be damaged in the extreme. The last part is me -- international. He didn't -- Moody's did not say the last part about damage in the extreme." 5

Joe Biden

Positive

00:01:15-00:01:42 (28 sec)

"I made clear during our meeting that default is not an option. I repeated that time and again. America is not a deadbeat nation. We pay our bills. And avoiding default is a basic duty of the United States Congress. In fact, they did it three times under my predecessor without once -- not one time -- creating a crisis, rattling the markets, or undermining the unshakable trust the world has in America's commitment to paying its bills." 6

Joe Biden

Somewhat Negative

00:01:42-00:01:47 (5 sec)

"And I'll remind you the national debt went up 40 percent" 7

Joe Biden

Negative

00:01:47-00:01:54 (7 sec)

"over the 200-year -- went up 40 percent under my predecessor. And that's the problem we're dealing with today." 8

Joe Biden

Very Negative

00:01:54-00:02:03 (9 sec)

"I might note parenthetically: In my first two years, I reduced the debt by $1.7 trillion. No President has ever done that." 9

Joe Biden

Somewhat Positive

00:02:03-00:02:14 (10 sec)

"I told congressional leaders that I'm prepared to begin a separate discussion about my budget and spending priorities, but not under the threat of default." 10

Joe Biden

Very Negative

00:02:14-00:02:28 (15 sec)

"As I said, I've already cut the deficit by $1.7 trillion in my first two years in office. And the budget just submitted to Congress cuts another $3 trillion in debt over the next 10 years -- my budget that I submitted." 11

Joe Biden

Negative

00:02:28-00:02:55 (26 sec)

"I made it clear that we can cut spending and cut the deficit. For example, my budget cuts $200 billion in spending by strengthening Medicare's power to negotiate for lower prescription drug prices. In addition, that's on top of the $160 billion in budget savings we passed last year by being able to reduce the price of insulin and other drugs for those on Medicare." 12

Joe Biden

Very Negative

00:02:55-00:03:14 (19 sec)

"And my budget cuts $30 billion -- $30 billion in spending on tax subsidies for Big Oil companies. They made $200 billion. They don't need a $30 billion subsidy to drill. It makes no sense. Why are we handing them a $30 billion tax subsidy?" 13

Joe Biden

Slightly Negative

00:03:14-00:03:21 (7 sec)

"And, you know, it's time to stop doing that. And that's what my budget does, among -- among other things." 14

Joe Biden

Neutral

00:03:21-00:03:46 (26 sec)

"My budget also funds the inerternal [sic] -- the Internal Revenue Code so that there's enough agents to thoroughly look at the taxes of billionaires in America. This Congressional Budget Office says it would raise $200 billion. Larry Summers, a former secretary, says -- says it would raise twice that amount. It'll raise a lot of money. Why do they want to get rid of the people who, in fact, would be able to do those audits?" 15

Joe Biden

Very Positive

00:03:46-00:04:13 (27 sec)

"And my budget has some of the strongest anti-fraud proposals ever proposed. It strengthens the number of inspector generals. Remember, I know some of you covered me with my arguments in the past, with the last administration, for cutting inspector generals, as to how the money was being spent. And the inspector generals are watchdogs for taxpayers' dollars. And it's been estimated that we'd save $10 for every dollar spent on funding inspector generals." 16

Joe Biden

Very Positive

00:04:13-00:04:26 (13 sec)

"My budget cuts wasteful spending, closes loopholes, and does one more thing: It makes the wealthiest Americans and the biggest corporations begin to start to pay some of their fair share -- just some of their fair share." 17

Joe Biden

Very Negative

00:04:26-00:04:40 (13 sec)

"Speaker McCarthy offered a very different way forward. He's proposed deep cuts that I believe are going to hurt American families. And millions of Americans relying on Medicaid for their healthcare would be at risk of losing that." 18

Joe Biden

Slightly Positive

00:04:40-00:04:49 (10 sec)

"And there would be 30 million fewer outpatient visits for veterans to the VA hospitals. And we just increased the VA budget so they could accommodate seeing these folks." 19

Joe Biden

Negative

00:04:49-00:05:01 (12 sec)

"And we have to cut -- we'd have to cut three- -- 30,000 law enforcement agents -- FBI, DEA, Border Patrol. A hundred thousand teachers and support personnel would lose their jobs." 20

Joe Biden

Very Negative

00:05:01-00:05:04 (3 sec)

"And all that would hurt Americans and leave folks behind." 21

Joe Biden

Very Negative

00:05:04-00:05:31 (27 sec)

"Look, now, I know the Speaker says, well, I'm not -- he uses the "L word," the "lying" word, but says I'm not telling the truth. All I asked him inside was: If you're not going to cut any of those programs and you're saying the cut is 22 percent across the board, then you're going to have to cut a hell of a lot more with the programs that are left. "No, we're not going to do that either." I'm not sure. I don't think they're sure exactly what they're proposing." 22

Joe Biden

Negative

00:05:31-00:05:40 (9 sec)

"And if House Republicans take cuts in defense off the table, the cuts they have to make to other programs will be even deeper than that." 23

Joe Biden

Very Positive

00:05:40-00:05:59 (19 sec)

"And one last thing that's very important: The Speaker is saying he's been trying to get me to sit down with him for 97 days. Ninety-seven days ago, we did meet in my office. I said to him at the time, "I'm happy to talk. You submit your budget; I'll set mine -- submit mine. And we'll talk about it."" 24

Joe Biden

Neutral

00:05:59-00:06:06 (7 sec)

"And I don't want to get any press person -- point anybody out, but I think you all remember my saying that." 25

Joe Biden

Slightly Positive

00:06:06-00:06:24 (17 sec)

"I submitted my budget on March the 9th in detail. He passed his plan I think in the last or second-to-last week in April. Five days later, after he finally put forward something, I called on him to invite -- invite him to a meeting with the other leading members of the Congress." 26

Joe Biden

Positive

00:06:24-00:06:38 (14 sec)

"Look, over these last few days and weeks, there's going to be -- there's a lot of politics posturing and gamesmanship, and it's going to continue for a while. But I am squarely focused on what matters. And we're getting to work." 27

Joe Biden

Very Negative

00:06:38-00:06:56 (18 sec)

"And I've said all along: Let's discuss what we need to cut, what we need to protect, what new revenue we can raise, and how to lower the deficit to put our fiscal house in order. But in the meantime -- in the meantime, we need to take the threat of default off the table." 28

Joe Biden

Positive

00:06:56-00:07:10 (15 sec)

"As this meeting ended -- as the meeting ended -- [clears throat] -- excuse me -- I suggested we continue to meet, and the leaders -- our staffs continue to meet, and the leaders meet again on Friday to continue our discussions to see what progress we've made." 29

Joe Biden

Somewhat Negative

00:07:10-00:07:16 (6 sec)

"So let me end where I began: This nation has never defaulted on its debt. It never will." 30

Joe Biden

Somewhat Positive

00:07:16-00:07:19 (3 sec)

"And thank you. And now I'll take your questions." 31

Joe Biden

Positive

00:07:19-00:07:22 (2 sec)

"Yes, ma'am." 32

Question

Slightly Positive

00:07:22-00:07:32 (11 sec)

"Will you roll out a short-term debt limit increase? And are you concerned that Speaker McCarthy, at least publicly, will not take the threat of default off the table?" 33

Joe Biden

Very Negative

00:07:32-00:07:50 (18 sec)

"I don't know what he thinks -- what McCarthy thi- -- Speaker McCarthy thinks. I think he knows better. I think he knows that default would be disastrous. And I think he knows what he's passed could not possibly pass anywhere in the Congress; it's dead on arrival." 34

Joe Biden

Neutral

00:07:50-00:07:55 (5 sec)

"And so -- so, I -- but I don't know his -- the depth of his thinking." 35

Joe Biden

Positive

00:07:55-00:07:55 ( sec)

"Yes." 36

Question

Slightly Negative

00:07:55-00:08:00 (4 sec)

"And what about a short-term debt limit increase? Are you ruling that out? Is that not okay for you?" 37

Joe Biden

Slightly Negative

00:08:00-00:08:10 (11 sec)

"I'm not ruling anything out. I said I'd come back and talk. I'm just ruling -- there's one thing I'm ruling out is default. And I'm not going to vote -- I'm not going to pass a budget that, in fact, caused massive cuts." 38

Joe Biden

Very Positive

00:08:10-00:08:33 (23 sec)

"I'll give you one example. They want to cut the I- -- the -- the -- the legislation we passed, the IRA. Well, guess what -- what they want to cut? They say that we're spending too much, giving tax breaks to people who are moving to renewable energy, and that by getting rid of those tax breaks we can -- we can -- we can save li- -- save money." 39

Joe Biden

Very Positive

00:08:33-00:08:54 (20 sec)

"Well, you all saw -- one of you probably wrote the article in today's New York Times about Texas. They're making significant progress on solar and wind and renewable energy and hydrogen. And guess what? They want to cut it. You know why? I don't think it's anything to do with anything other than the oil companies don't like it." 40

Question

Neutral

00:08:54-00:09:00 (6 sec)

"How certain are you at this point that a default can be avoided with so little time left?" 41

Joe Biden

Slightly Positive

00:09:00-00:09:13 (13 sec)

"Well, I'm -- I'm absolutely certain because I -- you have the 95 percent of the member -- well, I shouldn't say -- I won't be -- put in a number. An overwhelming number of the members of Congress know it would be a disaster." 42

Question

Very Positive

00:09:13-00:09:23 (10 sec)

"Mr. President, if you do -- you said you're certain you're not going to -- they're not going to -- there won't be a default. Are you willing to take unilateral action, like invoking the 14th Amendment, to make sure that doesn't happen?" 43

Joe Biden

Positive

00:09:23-00:09:43 (20 sec)

"Well, the question -- I have been considering the 14th Amendment. And a man I have enormous respect for, Larry Tribe, who advised me for a long time, thinks that it would be legitimate. But the problem is it would have to be litigated. And in the meantime, without an extension, it would still end up in the same place." 44

Joe Biden

Neutral

00:09:43-00:09:54 (11 sec)

"I'll be very blunt with you: When we get by this, I'm thinking about taking a look at -- months down the road -- to see whether -- what the court would say about whether or not the -- it does work." 45

Joe Biden

Positive

00:09:54-00:09:55 (1 sec)

"Yes, sir." 46

Question

Slightly Negative

00:09:55-00:10:02 (7 sec)

"Do you have time to get a deal and get it through before the deadline of as early as January [sic] 1st, and Secretary Yellen has warned about?" 47

Joe Biden

Leans Positive

00:10:02-00:10:07 (5 sec)

"Oh, I know we have the time. I mean, we could do it easily if they -- if -- but we do we have the will?" 48

Question

Somewhat Positive

00:10:07-00:10:17 (10 sec)

"And you mentioned the 14th, sir. There's other proposals like prioritization of payments and minting the coin. Can you speak to whether either of those have been studied by your staff?" 49

Joe Biden

Slightly Negative

00:10:17-00:10:27 (10 sec)

"No, I can't because I don't think anybody has studied the minting of the coin issue. But there have been discussions about whether or not the 14th Amendment is -- can be invoked." 50

Question

Neutral

00:10:27-00:10:28 (2 sec)

"Is that the most likely unilateral executive path --" 51

Joe Biden

Leans Positive

00:10:28-00:10:30 (1 sec)

"Look, yeah, but I --" 52

Question

Neutral

00:10:30-00:10:31 (1 sec)

"-- worst-case scenario?" 53

Joe Biden

Very Negative

00:10:31-00:10:41 (10 sec)

"I -- I don't -- I don't think that solves our problem now. I think that only solves your problem if -- once the court has ruled that it does apply for future ene- -- endeavors." 54

Joe Biden

Positive

00:10:41-00:10:42 (1 sec)

"Yes, sir." 55

Question

Very Positive

00:10:42-00:10:46 (3 sec)

"Mr. President, do you trust Kevin McCarthy?" 56

Joe Biden

Very Positive

00:10:46-00:10:50 (4 sec)

"I -- I -- I -- I trust Kevin will try to do what he says." 57

Joe Biden

Leans Positive

00:10:50-00:11:15 (25 sec)

"I don't know that -- I don't know how much leeway Kevin McCarthy thinks he has in light of the fact -- and I'm not being a wise guy when I say it took 15 votes for him to acquire the speakership. And, apparently, he had to make some serious concessions to get it from the most extreme elements of his party. So, I -- but I don't -- I just don't know." 58

Question

Very Positive

00:11:15-00:11:22 (7 sec)

"How long an increase are you seeking? How long would you like to extend it either by dollar value, or do you want it suspended indefinitely?" 59

Joe Biden

Slightly Positive

00:11:22-00:11:22 ( sec)

"Well --" 60

Question

Neutral

00:11:22-00:11:22 ( sec)

"The limit, I mean." 61

Joe Biden

Very Negative

00:11:22-00:11:35 (13 sec)

"No, no, no, I -- I think we should -- it should be more than -- for more than a year so we can move things along. And I think the discussions are somewhere -- somewhere in two- -- the two-year. But there's no certainty of when -- how long." 62

Question

Neutral

00:11:35-00:11:36 (1 sec)

"Past the election though?" 63

Question

Very Negative

00:11:36-00:11:53 (17 sec)

"Mr. President, was Speaker McCarthy's message to you behind closed doors the same one that we heard from him at the sticks: that he will absolutely not decouple raising the debt ceiling with cuts? Did he send that message to you?" 64

Joe Biden

Very Positive

00:11:53-00:12:09 (16 sec)

"I -- I don't want to violate a -- basically a trust that we had that we can -- you can talk openly and make -- and raise possibilities in the White House with the -- on a -- on a closed meeting." 65

Question

Slightly Negative

00:12:09-00:12:20 (11 sec)

"On another topic, sir. Today, former President Donald Trump was charged with battery and defamation. Your reaction to that, sir?" 66

Joe Biden

Leans Negative

00:12:20-00:12:25 (5 sec)

"I'm unaware of it. I heard that as I've been walking from room to room, but I can't comment on it. I don't know." 67

Question

Neutral

00:12:25-00:12:30 (5 sec)

"Let us ask it this way: What was the tenor of the meeting? Was it civil?" 68

Joe Biden

Neutral

00:12:30-00:12:32 (2 sec)

"The tenor of the meeting was --" 69

Question

Neutral

00:12:32-00:12:34 (2 sec)

"Was it frank? Or what?" 70

Joe Biden

Leans Negative

00:12:34-00:12:49 (16 sec)

"-- with three of the four participants -- very measured and -- and low key. Occasionally there would be a little bit of a -- an assertion that maybe was a little over the top from the Speaker. But nothing, you know -- anyway." 71

Question

Very Positive

00:12:49-00:13:03 (13 sec)

"Do you expect any -- do you expect any substantial progress by the time you get back to meeting on Friday?" 72

Joe Biden

Leans Negative

00:13:03-00:13:22 (19 sec)

"Well, it's going to depend a lot on -- I've been doing this a long time. I don't mean budget negotiations for the debt ceiling. But sometimes -- how can I say this?" 73

Joe Biden

Slightly Positive

00:13:22-00:13:37 (15 sec)

"One of the ways in which senators or congresspersons are able to back off some of the things they've done is if they're -- give their staff some leeway, and the staff has then said, "Well, we're going to do this." And it moves -- it kicks the can down the road a little bit." 74

Question

Somewhat Positive

00:13:37-00:13:42 (6 sec)

"Is there any chance you would postpone your trip for the G7 as a result of this? Or are you -- are you still committed to going on that trip?" 75

Joe Biden

Positive

00:13:42-00:13:46 (4 sec)

"I'm still committed, but obviously this is the single most important thing that's on the agenda." 76

Question

Neutral

00:13:46-00:13:48 (2 sec)

"Mr. President -- Mr. President, under the --" 77

Joe Biden

Slightly Positive

00:13:48-00:13:52 (4 sec)

"Let me get someone who hasn't asked a question yet. Anybody? I'll call -- I'll ask yours as well." 78

Joe Biden

Positive

00:13:52-00:13:53 (1 sec)

"Yes, ma'am." 79

Question

Leans Negative

00:13:53-00:14:00 (7 sec)

"So there is doubt that you might not go on your trip? And you say this is the single most important issue." 80

Joe Biden

Neutral

00:14:00-00:14:00 (1 sec)

"I'm sorry?" 81

Question

Neutral

00:14:00-00:14:03 (3 sec)

"Is it possible that you stay here and you don't find a solution?" 82

Joe Biden

Neutral

00:14:03-00:14:17 (14 sec)

"It is possible, but not likely. In other words, if somehow we got down to the wire and we still hadn't resolved this, and the -- the due date was in a matter of -- when I was supposed to be away, I would not go. I would stay until this gets finished." 83

Question

Somewhat Positive

00:14:17-00:14:21 (4 sec)

"Are you more -- are you more or less optimistic than you were this morning after this meeting?" 84

Joe Biden

Neutral

00:14:21-00:14:21 (1 sec)

"More." 85

Question

Neutral

00:14:21-00:14:23 (2 sec)

"Why?" 86

Joe Biden

Very Positive

00:14:23-00:14:25 (1 sec)

"Because I'm a born optimist." 87

Question

Very Negative

00:14:25-00:14:40 (16 sec)

"Mr. President, was it a mistake under the Obama administration, when you were Vice President, to negotiate on the debt limit in the summer of 2011, since that set a precedent under a divided government to at least negotiate and have discussions over raising the debt limit?" 88

Joe Biden

Very Negative

00:14:40-00:15:00 (20 sec)

"No, in the sense that -- I got a call that morning at six o'clock saying that the Republican leader would only talk to me, and there was no time left. And so I sat down, and I got instructions from the White House to settle it. And that was my job. But I had no notice." 89

Question

Neutral

00:15:00-00:15:05 (5 sec)

"Sir, just to put a finer point on today --" 90

Question

Neutral

00:15:05-00:15:08 (4 sec)

"Mr. President, Speaker McCarthy said he asked you numerous times --" 91

Joe Biden

Leans Positive

00:15:08-00:15:18 (9 sec)

"Okay, I'm going to -- let me go with you and you and then to the person with a camera. No, I'm joking. [Laughter]" 92

Question

Leans Negative

00:15:18-00:15:26 (8 sec)

"Speaker McCarthy said that he asked you numerous times if there was anywhere in the federal budget for cuts, but he did not get an answer. So is there anywhere --" 93

Joe Biden

Neutral

00:15:26-00:15:29 (4 sec)

"He got a specific answer. He got a specific answer again today. The first --" 94

Question

Neutral

00:15:29-00:15:30 (1 sec)

"Which is what?" 95

Joe Biden

Slightly Positive

00:15:30-00:15:36 (6 sec)

"I -- well, you didn't listen either. So why should I even answer the question?" 96

Joe Biden

Very Negative

00:15:36-00:15:55 (20 sec)

"I -- we cut the deficit by $160 billion -- billion -- B-I-L-O-I-O-N -- dollars on the Medicare deal. We cut the deficit by raising the tax on people making -- 55 corporations that made $40 billion to 15 percent. And the list goes on. So --" 97

Question

Neutral

00:15:55-00:15:59 (4 sec)

"But in terms of what he is proposing, is there any room for negotiation?" 98

Joe Biden

Neutral

00:15:59-00:16:00 (1 sec)

"What's he proposing? Did he tell you?" 99

Question

Slightly Positive

00:16:00-00:16:00 ( sec)

"Well, he --" 100

Joe Biden

Neutral

00:16:00-00:16:01 (1 sec)

"Did you hear him?" 101

Question

Neutral

00:16:01-00:16:02 (1 sec)

"-- he talked about --" 102

Joe Biden

Very Negative

00:16:02-00:16:06 (4 sec)

"No, no, I'm not being facetious. Did he tell you what he's proposing?" 103

Question

Neutral

00:16:06-00:16:08 (3 sec)

"He -- he was talking about the bill." 104

Joe Biden

Somewhat Positive

00:16:08-00:16:11 (3 sec)

"Yeah. But what -- what does it propose? Do you know?" 105

Joe Biden

Negative

00:16:11-00:16:18 (6 sec)

"I'm not being a wise guy. You all are very, very informed people. Do you know what that bill cuts?" 106

Question

Slightly Negative

00:16:18-00:16:22 (4 sec)

"He -- there is a long list of things that it -- it cuts that he --" 107

Joe Biden

Very Negative

00:16:22-00:16:31 (9 sec)

"No. No, it doesn't say. It says -- does it say what it's going to cut or just say generically it's going to cut?" 108

Joe Biden

Negative

00:16:31-00:16:32 (2 sec)

"You get the problem. You've answered." 109

Question

Neutral

00:16:32-00:16:46 (14 sec)

"Mr. President, Speaker McCarthy told us outside that he wants at least you to consider cutting and clawing back some of the unspent COVID relief funds. Would that be something that you would consider, even if it's independent of these debt limit discussions?" 110

Joe Biden

Neutral

00:16:46-00:17:03 (17 sec)

"The answer is I'd take a hard look at it, because there's still -- we don't need it all, but the question is what obligations were there made -- commitments made, the money not dispersed, et cetera. I have to look -- take a hard look at it. It's o- -- on -- it's on the table." 111

Question

Leans Positive

00:17:03-00:17:11 (8 sec)

"And just briefly, sir, to put a finer point on it, the -- the lawmakers came out today, and their message was, essentially, there wasn't much substantial progress in the meeting. Do you agree with that?" 112

Joe Biden

Neutral

00:17:11-00:17:13 (2 sec)

"I listened to everything they said. I didn't hear them say that." 113

Question

Neutral

00:17:13-00:17:15 (3 sec)

"Well, they -- they said there was no movement." 114

Joe Biden

Leans Positive

00:17:15-00:17:16 (1 sec)

"Yeah, but what else did they say?" 115

Question

Slightly Negative

00:17:16-00:17:17 (1 sec)

"The Speaker said there was no movement." 116

Question

Very Positive

00:17:17-00:17:22 (5 sec)

"The Speaker. So do you think that there was any substantial progress, aside from agreeing to meet again?" 117

Joe Biden

Positive

00:17:22-00:17:33 (11 sec)

"[Laughs] Yes, among three of the fi- -- of the four, yes, there was substantial movement in the sense that everyone agreed that deficit -- defaulting on the debt is off the table." 118

Joe Biden

Slightly Positive

00:17:33-00:17:34 (1 sec)

"Last one, okay?" 119

Question

Very Positive

00:17:34-00:17:43 (9 sec)

"Title 42. Is the United States ready for the surge of people that's going to come across the border starting later this week?" 120

Joe Biden

Neutral

00:17:43-00:17:55 (12 sec)

"I spent close to an hour with -- with the Mexican President today. We're doing all we can. The answer is: It remains to be seen." 121

Joe Biden

Neutral

00:17:55-00:18:08 (12 sec)

"We've gotten overwhelming cooperation from Mexico. We also are in the process of setting up resi- -- offices in Colombia and other places where you could -- where someone seeking asylum can go first." 122

Joe Biden

Very Negative

00:18:08-00:18:33 (25 sec)

"So -- but it remains to be seen. It's going to be chaotic for a while. And, as an example, as I raised in the meeting -- when they said, "Well, we're going to cut, and no spending more money." So what the hell happens? If you cut -- you're going to cut people at the border? You're going to cut agents at the border? We n- -- we need more at the border, not less at the border." 123