Tonight Donald Trump . America is doing so poorly. And it soon will not be a great country the way it's going. The leadership is very poor. We're doing very poorly. Donald Trump , how he would solve the country's debt crisis and what he would do to keep America great. And remember that uproar over President Obama's birth certificate? Honestly I'm very proud that I was able to bring this to a point. Nobody else was. Tavis Smiley says that was race baiting. I'll ask him why he said the 2012 race for the White House will be nastiest in history. And why he says the White House itself pays too much attention to Wall Street. Tonight race in the age of Obama. If you're looking for the safe choice, you shouldn't be supporting a black guy named Barack Obama. [Laughter] To be the next leader of the free world. Candid conversation with Tavis Smiley. This is Piers Morgan Tonight. Donald Trump says that America's economy could be going from bad to worse. And he joins me now on the phone with his prescription for recovery. Donald, how are you? Hello, Piers. First of all, congratulations on becoming a grandfather again. Your lovely daughter Ivanka had a beautiful baby girl Arabella Rose, I understand. That is true. And I'm very happy about that. We all are. Now tell me, if we were trying to prescribe an economic future for young Arabella that you would feel comfortable about, what would you do right now? Well, first you have to get the debt down. The debt limits have to come down. The whole world of debt has to be changed as far as this country is concerned. We have to create jobs and we have to create them rapidly because if we don't things are just going to head in a direction that's going to be almost impossible to recover from. So we really need jobs now. We have to take jobs away from other countries because other countries are taking our jobs. There is practically not a country that does business with the United States that isn't making -- let's call it a very big profit. I mean China is going to make $300 billion on us at least this year. And they just revised that recently, I don't know if you saw. But they just said those numbers are going to be low. So we have to take our country back. And what do you think of this Gang of Six plan? Do you think it's workable from what you've seen? Well, from what I've seen, nobody really knows exactly what it represents and what it is yet. But at least they're in there pitching and at least they're trying to make the big deal. The big deal is really the deal they should make. I don't like the punt. I don't like the deal where we kick it down the road for six months. This is the time to make the deal. And I have to tell you, the Republicans have the cards. People might not think that, but the Republicans have all of the cards. And this is the time to get rid of Obamacare. This is the time to make the great deal. I've been following you on Twitter and you've been pretty aggressive about Obama on the economy. You believe that he can't stop spending and that America has to stop spending. One of his beliefs, of course, is that he's got to get rid of these tax incentives for the rich. And look after the guys with no money. Why would you oppose that as an ideology? Well, you know, it's a different world today, Piers, where people in this world can form companies in foreign countries where they pay very little tax, much less tax. And once you start taxing -- and I'm not talking about me. But once you start taxing people that do create jobs and do create businesses, you take the incentive away and then you're really going to have an unemployment problem. So he's treading on very dangerous waters. Tell me this, Donald. I had Grover Norquist on here the other day, and I've put to him a question which he found quite hard to answer. And in the end gave me what I thought was a ridiculous response. I said to him, given where we are right now in America economically, how much of the blame should be attached to Barack Obama and how much should be attached to the previous eight years of Republican administration? If you were choosing a percentage, apportioning blame to each party there, what would you say? Well, look. You know as well as anybody and you know me probably better than most because of our wonderful relationship with Celebrity Apprentice where you won and did great. And I'm proud of you and I'm proud of how well you're doing. Thank you. But you understand I was never a big fan of George Bush, OK? So it wasn't like, oh gee, I'm a rah-rah guy for Bush. But Obama took over a situation and has made it not better but probably worse. I think the economy is getting worse. I see things getting worse. Employment has gone up, not down. So Bush certainly wasn't the greatest, and Obama has not done the job. And he's created a lot of disincentive. He's created a lot of great dissatisfaction. Regulations and regulatory is going through the roof. It's almost impossible to get anything done in the country. Environmentally speaking, I want to tell you, I see jobs that are stopped all the time because of absolutely insane and ridiculous environmental rules. And these are jobs that could be employing a lot of people. So nothing's been made better, it's only been made worse. So in terms of percentages, you know, I would just -- not really like to say that. I would say I wasn't a fan of the first and I'm certainly not a fan of the second. Because the second has made things worse, not better. And in terms of America PLC, that the business model, if you like, America Incorporated, as it is here, if you were analyzing the old model and the way it ought to go, what are the fundamental changes? Because it seems to me -- you're right about bureaucracy. China doesn't bog itself down with bureaucracy. It just gets stuff done and that is why they're roaring ahead. That's one of the things. Secondly, America doesn't really build anything anymore. It doesn't make anything. It doesn't export enough stuff abroad to these countries. Right. Which have now all this money. Right. But what other things have you identified? I mean what should America be doing to revise this business plan? To get itself going again? Well, you're really right about that. The system and the model is broken. It didn't used to be broken years ago. Everybody went out and they worked. And they -- you look at 50 percent of the people aren't paying taxes. And it's an amazing statistics. But tremendous number of people aren't paying any taxes. And we have a lot of people that just don't want to work. They don't have the incentive to work, or they haven't been brought up to work. And it's a big problem for this country. In China, everybody is running around working like mad. And I give them great credit for that. But I also give them credit for being much smarter than our leaders. And they've taken our jobs away. They manufacture our products. As do other countries. And the first thing that has to be done is we have to get back on track with respect to OPEC which is a tremendous abuser of this country. And we don't even talk about it. And with respect to China and others who abuse our country because their leaders have made much better deals than our leaders. Because our leaders are either not as smart or there's some other reason. But it's conceivable some of the deals they make. You look at Columbia, a country not that large, they had a $4 billion surplus on us this year. They made $4 billion. We never make a deal. We never make a deal where we come out on top. So we've lost our jobs, we've lost our incentive. And I will tell you that -- and Piers, I've discussed this with you before. Getting things done in this country, if you want to build something, if you want to start a company, it's getting to be virtually impossible with all of the bureaucracy and all of the approvals. Do you think -- do you think -- It's horrible. Yes, I do think America is just so wrapped down in red tape. I mean getting all the basic things done involves sheets of paperwork. I mean I'm quite surprised having come here to live now just how the most basic stuff you want done in your life requires 100 pages of documents. This is one of the reasons why countries like China are storming ahead because they simply don't have that kind of bureaucracy. Well, you know, it's interesting in China, because I've been to China and I've been all over the world, and they want to build a city and they fill in a piece of the ocean. And in this -- and you know how long it takes them? Like how about two days? They say let's fill this in, we're going to build a city and create thousands of jobs. If you ever even suggested it in this country, they'd say you're certifiably insane because you can't do it. I've seen recently where a certain type of grass -- grass, I won't go into the level of detail that I should, but a certain type, a little piece of grass has held up a major job from being built. Major. Supplying jobs to everybody and everybody wants it to happen. But because it's got a little piece of grass, a certain type of rather rare grass, the environmentalists hold up the job. And now this job will never -- It is ridiculous. No, no -- [Crosstalk] And yet China will fill up the ocean. And I say to a friend of mine -- Yes. I've seen that. -- in China how long did it take you to get your permits? He doesn't even know what I'm talking about, it went so fast. So this country is in serious trouble. And we have to get back on track. It is in serious -- yes, it is in serious trouble. And what I want to talk to you about now is who you would trust. Given you're no longer in the presidential race. Which of the Republican candidates so far and, you know, Michele Bachmann, I guess, is emerging as one of the favorites from the Tea Party side of things. Mitt Romney appears to be the best at fund raising at the moment and so on. Which one have you identified as potentially the one that could beat Barack Obama? Well, it's too early for me to say. I -- everybody is asking me for support and all of that. It's just too early for me to say. But I will say this, that I think the Republicans are so misplaying their hand. They have the cards. And it started back in December when you had the lame-duck session. And Obama rose like a phoenix. He was gone. It was over for Obama. And they brought him back with the deal they made which was a horrible deal. Paul Ryan's plan where he attacks Medicare is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen especially if you happen to be running for reelection because you're going to see the only one happy is Nancy Pelosi and her group because you're going to see some tremendous reversals. I've seen it already with Congressman West where he's being beaten up now by -- you know by the Democrats over Medicare. And what do you -- what do you think of Michele Bachmann? Well, I think she's a very underrated person. She actually came to see me in New York a few weeks ago, and I was very impressed with her. And I think she's highly underrated. I think she's very good. And Sarah Palin obviously has not committed yet. She's another good friend of yours. No, and I think she's terrific. I think she's a terrific person. She came to see me a little while before. You know we have the famous -- They're all coming to see you, Donald. Yes. They're all coming to see me but Sarah Palin has also been -- you know, they're highly underrated people. They're smart. They know what they're doing. They know every move. And they don't get proper credit. So I don't know that Sarah is going to run. I don't think she's going to run. I'm not sure she knows whether or not she's going to run, but I think she's a terrific person. I think Michele is a terrific person. And talking of people who are coming to see me, in this case me, I've got an old friend of yours, Tavis Smiley, coming in in a moment for an interview, who said during the birther controversy that your involvement in any election would make it the ugliest, nastiest, most divisive and most racist in the history of this republic. Well, that's just -- [Crosstalk] Anything you'd like to say to Tavis? The word racist has not been applied to me, I will tell you that. But I was very proud of the job I did with respect to the birther issue, because I got Obama to do something which nobody else was able to get him to do. And there's a real question as to why he took so long to do it. Maybe one of these days you'll have to ask him why. And you have to check out that document very carefully. But I got him to do something that nobody else was able to do. And I'm very proud of it. But I have to tell you, the Republicans have a chance, but the way they're going about it, they are not going to get him out of office. They are making mistake after mistake. And I can see them already making another mistake when it comes to what they're discussing right now in terms of debt limits. Donald Trump , a provocative and entertaining as ever. Thank you very much for joining me. Thank you very much, Piers.