Conan O'Brien making light of the NSA leaks. But it's a serious matter to many people. Donald Trump is the man with some pretty serious opinions about himself. Are we making too much of the surveillance and should the focus really be on the leaker Edward Snowden? Well, Donald Trump joins me now on the phone. Donald, how are you? I'm fine, Piers. Great to talk to you. What is your reaction -- Nice talking to you. What is your reaction to this? Because look at it in the bigger picture. Clearly a number of Americans are concerned about the level to which their privacy is being attacked here but at the same time a lot of secrets are being spilled. Where do you sit? Well, let's start off with Snowden. I think he's bad news. I've watched him and he's having a good time. And of all places he goes to Hong Kong for protection. That is itself is a little bit interesting because that's not a place where actually he should get that kind of protection but it looks like they are going to protect him. So I don't know what information he's given them but it could be very serious. He's a bad guy. I have no doubt that he's a bad guy. As far as, you know, privacy, certainly we want the privacy. Now people are saying that this is national security and it really depends on how far they're going and that will come out, but we do want privacy. We also want national security. Rand Paul today said he's going to challenge the constitutionality of the court order, presumably under the Fourth Amendment. Listen to what he had to say. Americans are rightly concerned about having all of their phone records collected and monitored all of the time. We're here today to announce that we will be challenging the constitutionality of the court order that collects all of American cell phone data all of the time. [End Clip] To Rand Paul there making it pretty clear that he thinks this is a breach, I would imagine, of the Fourth Amendment rights of Americans here. And it's a serious business if that's what it is. Well, Piers, it's certainly a point of view, and there's no question about it that this is a mess no matter how you look at it. It is a mess. You know, where do they stop? How far do they go? What kind of power do they have? So it is a point of view and some very conservative people feel that way and some, frankly, very liberal people. I mean, we're looking at a lot of people are concerned about how far are they going to go, and that's what we're talking about. What about journalists? Peter King said yesterday he thinks journalists should potentially be prosecuted, maybe even go to jail for publishing and reporting leaks like this. Do you agree with that? Well, I think that -- and we've had this over the years and we've had it actually a number of times over the years but there's never been anything quite like this and there's never been -- you know, this is all because of what's happened with all of the e-mails and the twitters and all of -- you know, what's taking place in a computerized world. Ten years ago you write on the back of an envelope. You write something down on a piece of paper. Today everything, whatever you put down is there, and it's there forever. It's indelible. So it is going to be -- it's a real problem for this country, and you look at the kind of secrets that are being given out. A lot of people are saying China has learned more from this young man that -- and you know, without a high school education that had access to everything you could possibly have access to. I mean, what kind of security is this? This is tremendous security breach. I mean, there is another way of looking at some of what he's done in the sense if you're not American, you're looking at it from the outside saying, America has been accusing the Chinese of hacking computers here for a long time now, and Snowden has revealed and apparently has the proof to back this up that America has been hacking Chinese computers for the last three to four years. Is that not in the public interest? Well, China is having a field day because that's true. Over the last especially year we've been talking about them hacking, right? And now all of a sudden you look at what's going on and China is -- over the last couple of days, they're talking about us hacking. We do far more than they've ever done and they are having an absolutely field day. I think the bigger field day is what is Snowden giving them? How much information is Snowden giving them? Because it sounds like he's got just about all the information we have in this country. Yes. Absolutely. Well, one other thing that leaked out today was about a friend of yours and mine, Rupert Murdoch. You're a billionaire who's been married three times. He's a billionaire who's just divorcing his third wife. Are you surprised by that news? Well, I was surprised. I know him and like Rupert a lot. I know and like Wendy a lot. And I never saw this coming. This is really very surprising to me and it was surprising to a lot of other people, including my daughter Yvanka who's a good friend of theirs. Yes, I mean, what do you -- what do you hear or think is maybe behind it? Well, I don't hear anything. I mean, I was just very surprised to hear the news. I was very saddened by it. They are both very good people, and so I was really surprised and I'm sure you were probably more surprised than anybody. Yes. It's a hell of a shock, I think, for anyone that knows them both. And I -- To me, if you know Rupert, and if you know the whole situation, that to me is a -- you know, it's a very big story. Yes. Because I just thought they got along really well. I was very, very saddened to hear about it. Yes, I'm with you. I'm sad about it, too. Let's move on to Hillary Clinton. A lot of activity with her this week. She burst on to Twitter, which many saw as a sign that she's bracing everyone for a run in 2016 then she was hit by State Department scandal allegations, cover-ups over sex scandals and so on. What do you think of Hillary generally and what do you think of her chances if she does run a success in 2016? Well, she's getting hit very hard. There is no question about it. I've always liked her on a very personal basis. I've liked her and her husband a lot. In fact he was on your show saying that he likes me. So -- He was, yes. You know, it's hard not to like somebody -- [Laughter] Yes. But I like him and I think he does like me and we played golf together. And, you know, I've just always gotten along very well. They are members of my club up in West Chester and they're wonderful members actually, and wonderful people. So I've always liked Hillary. I think that if Benghazi and all of this stuff that's been coming up lately because she is -- has been getting hit very hard but if it doesn't stick, which perhaps it will and perhaps it won't, I think she's going to be the easy nominee for the Democrats. Do you think that she could win? There is a lot of traction now behind Chris Christie who I've found an extremely engaging impressive charter whenever I interviewed him. Do you think that he could put on a real race with Hillary? It was a hell of a fight for the media but I could see that being a really great running. Well, he's another friend of mine and I think he'd be very effective and I think that he will be certainly somebody that you cannot mess with. It'll be a very interesting race if that's the race. But I know there are a lot of people on both sides that are thinking about it very seriously. I know Hillary's numbers have gone down. They've been a little bit affected and some people would say quite a bit affected by what's happened. I hear the vice president would like very much to run and that he may be running, but it just seems to me if Hillary wants it, assuming nothing much happens with what we're all talking about for the last two weeks, that it will be Hillary on the Democratic side. The Republicans, it's not quite as clear as to what's going to happen as of this moment and certainly Chris has not made any indication that he would be running. He's going to be running for governor. He's going to do very well on that race, I believe. I think that should be an easy race for him but -- [Crosstalk] If he did run, if he did run, Donald, would you -- would you see yourself endorsing him pretty quickly? Well, I have a great relationship with him. I have a relationship with many of the people that we're talking about. It's never easy, Piers, because I have a relationship with many of the people that we're talking about. Right. But we'll see how it all goes. I mean, you know, Chris is somebody that I've known for a long time. I've always backed him. And we'll see how things go. Donald Trump , always great to talk to you, thank you so much. Well, thank you very much.