Transcript - MSNBC: Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski Interview Donald Trump - October 27, 2015 | Factba.se

Mika Brzezinski

00:00:00 - 00:00:04 (4 sec)

So joining us by phone, Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump. Donald?

Donald Trump

00:00:04 - 00:00:05 (1 sec)

[On the Phone] Good morning.

Mika Brzezinski

00:00:05 - 00:00:07 (2 sec)

Good morning. How are you doing?

Donald Trump

00:00:07 - 00:00:07 (0 sec)

Mika Brzezinski

00:00:07 - 00:00:09 (2 sec)

So what's up in Iowa?

Donald Trump

00:00:09 - 00:00:42 (33 sec)

Well, I don't get it. I'm going there actually today and I have tremendous crowds and tremendous love in the room and, you know, we seem to have hit a chord. But some of these polls coming out, I don't quite get it. I was No. 1 pretty much in Iowa from the beginning, and I would say we're doing very well there. So I'm a little bit surprised. The other polls, as you know, in other states are extraordinary, actually. This one I on the quite get. I would have thought we were doing much better. I think we are doing much better, actually.

Joe Scarborough

00:00:42 - 00:00:56 (14 sec)

So Donald, if the polls keep going in this direction in Iowa, do you write it off like a lot of other candidates write Iowa off as a state where candidates like Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum and Pat Robertson do well and then sort of fade away?

Donald Trump

00:00:56 - 00:01:12 (16 sec)

No, I love Iowa, I love the people of Iowa. I've had a great relationship with the people of Iowa. I made a lot of friends there. No, I wouldn't write it off at all. I would fight for it. I'll fight right to the end for it. And if I don't win it, I understand that can happen, but I will be fighting for Iowa.

Willie Geist

00:01:12 - 00:01:26 (14 sec)

Donald, good morning it's Willie. We sat around this table and a lot of people have sat around many tables on shows like this and tried to explain the phenomenon in Iowa that's Ben Carson. As you guys sit in strategy meetings, how do you explain his rise in that state?

Donald Trump

00:01:26 - 00:02:01 (35 sec)

Well, I don't get it, you know, to be honest with you. You look at different things having to do with Ben and there's a lot of contradiction and a lot of questions. We'll have to see. One thing I know about a frontrunner, you get analyzed 15 different ways from China. A lot of things will come out. You know, like Ben was pro abortion not so long ago as everybody has told me. I don't know it personally, but that's what I'm told -- I've been told and all of a sudden he's so hard on abortion under no circumstance, virtually, can there be exceptions.

Donald Trump

00:02:01 - 00:02:26 (25 sec)

And you say, well, how does that happen where you were pro and not long ago, by the way, and then all of a sudden you can't even have exceptions. So that's an unusual stance and I think people will look at that and they will look at lots of other things including what happened in hospitals and what he was working on and a lot of things I hear, I just don't actually get it. But I give credit, but I don't get it.

Joe Scarborough

00:02:26 - 00:02:49 (23 sec)

So Donald, we've had several polls that we just showed where your tally and Ben Carson's tally adds up to 50 percent. And that's 50 percent of the Republican voting bloc wants to elect somebody without any experience in politics. Why is that?

Donald Trump

00:02:49 - 00:03:09 (20 sec)

Well, I have a lot of experience in politics. You were alluding to it before. All my life I've been involved. Every deal I've done practically has been political in some form, including many deals I've done outside because I'm all over the world. I'm doing many deals right now all over the world. I deal with prime ministers and heads of country. I've always been very political.

Donald Trump

00:03:09 - 00:03:31 (22 sec)

This is the only time I've bean a so-called politician. Four months ago I became a politician which is hard to believe, actually, if you think about it from my standpoint. This is something I never saw happening for myself. I've been a very political person for many years. I do think this, that people are extremely unhappy with their politicians, including the president, including Congress, you look what's going on there, it's a mess. And I think that people are disgusted with politicians.

Mika Brzezinski

00:03:31 - 00:03:49 (18 sec)

So look at these numbers that just crossed. This is CBS News/New York Times" poll. Ben Carson at 26 percent. And you at 22. Within the margin of error. Marco Rubio at eight. Is that -- so look at these numbers that just crossed. This is CBS News/New York Times poll. Ben Carson at 26 percent. And you at 22. Look at these numbers that just crossed. This is CBS News

Joe Scarborough

00:03:49 - 00:03:49 (0 sec)

Mika Brzezinski

00:03:49 - 00:03:57 (8 sec)

This is a national poll. Nationally. And Marco Rubio is at eight, Carly Fiorina at seven, Jeb Bush at seven.

Joe Scarborough

00:03:57 - 00:04:11 (14 sec)

It looks right now, Donald, and this is within the margin of error, but it looks right now in the middle of October like a two-person race between you and Ben Carson. Why should Republican voters vote for you instead of Ben Carson?

Donald Trump

00:04:11 - 00:04:49 (38 sec)

Because I will make the best trade deals, I will be strongest and best on the military. I will get rid of Obamacare. Ben wants to knock out Medicare. I heard that over the weekend. He wants to abolish Medicare. And I think, you know, abolishing Medicare, I don't think you'll get away with that one. It's actually a program that's worked. It's a program that some people love, actually. So if you look at what is going on with our country, if you take a look at the horrible deals that we've made, including the Iran deal, including even you take a look on a different subject, Sergeant Bergdahl.

Donald Trump

00:04:49 - 00:05:08 (19 sec)

We get Bergdahl, they get five killers they wanted for a long period of time. The whole thing is ridiculous. That's why people are unhappy. I'll make some of the great trade deals. I'll bring -- I will bring our jobs back. I'll bring our money back. I'll bring our manufacturing back. Ben can't do that.

Joe Scarborough

00:05:08 - 00:05:26 (18 sec)

You know, I may be a Carson denier. I have been accusing people of being Trump deniers. But I still think this campaign at the end probably, if I had to bet my own money, would come dome between you and Jeb Bush. You had some tough words for Jeb Bush this weekend. Do you think Jeb has what it takes to be president?

Donald Trump

00:05:26 - 00:05:59 (33 sec)

I don't know. We'll find out. Let's see what happens. I mean so far his campaign has not been good. He spent a lot of money hiring people. He spent tremendous amount -- This is what I mean by negotiating. I've spent the least amount of money of anybody and I have the best result because in every poll, other than these Iowa polls, I'm No. 1. But now I see this new one. But I've spend the least amount of money. Now, you know, you can make the case. I am willing to spend whatever it takes. I have more money than anybody by far. Somebody was saying somebody has $12 million in the bank.

Donald Trump

00:05:59 - 00:06:24 (25 sec)

Take a look at how much it costs them to raise money too where Ben has $20 million but it cost him $11 million to raise it and you take that out so you deduct the 11 from the 20. It's unbelievable the amount of money they spend to raise the money. Now in my case I have the money and I'm willing, at the right time, you have to wait for the right time, but at the right time I'm willing to spend whatever is necessary.

Joe Scarborough

00:06:24 - 00:06:25 (1 sec)

Mark Halperin

00:06:25 - 00:06:26 (1 sec)

Good morning, Mr. Trump.

Donald Trump

00:06:26 - 00:06:27 (1 sec)

Mark Halperin

00:06:27 - 00:06:49 (22 sec)

I want to ask you -- I'm trying to settle once and for all your relationship with polls. When you're ahead in the polls, you cite them. You act like they're scientific gospel. When we see polls where you're behind, sometimes you'll challenge the pollster, the organization, the methodology, the legitimacy of the poll. How do you determine which -- how do you justify or explain attacking polls where you're behind but celebrating polls where you're ahead?

Donald Trump

00:06:49 - 00:07:23 (34 sec)

Well I think you have to understand polls and when I was at school, when I was at Wharton we actually had a case on polls. We had a one month study on polls. I believe in polls. I generally believe in polls. The thing with these polls, they're all so different. They are coming from all over the lot where one guy is up here, somebody else is up there, you see swings of 10 and 12 points and immediately even the same day. So right now its not very scientific. I think it's very hard when you have this many. But overall, Mark, I'm a believer in polls. I think they say something. At least they spot a trend.

Joe Scarborough

00:07:23 - 00:07:24 (1 sec)

Doris Kearns Goodwin

00:07:24 - 00:07:44 (20 sec)

As somebody who studied presidents my whole life, just a couple of questions from leadership. One of the them is that one of the things that's attractive about you for many people is that you're not needing money and can you do it on your own. If you were to become president, would you support Citizens United being undone, would you support campaign finance so somebody else can do what you're doing without being a billionaire?

Donald Trump

00:07:44 - 00:08:28 (44 sec)

Well I think that the whole thing of PACs is a disgrace. I think it's a scam. I think it's a disgrace. I had nine or 11 or some huge number of PACs set up for me by people I don't know. People set them up. I see them on television all the time talking about -- and some are saying, you know, they are all saying sort of good things about me. I have no idea what they will do with the money. They raise money and spend money. But a worse trend has taken -- Because that, you can almost say is the way it's supposed to be. I But if you look at Ben Carson, his PAC is running his Iowa campaign and it's not supposed to be done like that. You look at Jeb Bush where he has his office near his PAC, you know, it's supposed to be totally independent.

Donald Trump

00:08:28 - 00:09:00 (32 sec)

In theory they are not supposed to be talking to each other and now all of a sudden -- in fact, there was an article yesterday in The Wall Street Journal" where they've just about given up and they're practically taking over the campaigns So the PACs now are totally out of control and those are the people that are like puppets, they're controlling the candidate. I'm the only one that's not -- I disavowed all PACs. I'm the only one that's self-funding. I don't know if I get credit for that --

Doris Kearns Goodwin

00:09:00 - 00:09:04 (4 sec)

I hope you can get it. You keep making this --

Donald Trump

00:09:04 - 00:09:09 (5 sec)

In a way I feel foolish. [Crosstalk] But these PACs have totally taken over.

Doris Kearns Goodwin

00:09:09 - 00:09:31 (22 sec)

No, I agree. I agree. Here's the other question. From the guys that I've studied, FDR, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, LBJ, one of their greatest traits is their ability when they make a mistake to learn from the mistake, acknowledge it and grow. What would you say is the biggest mistake you've made and what you've learned from it that will help you now to become a president?

Donald Trump

00:09:31 - 00:10:01 (30 sec)

Well, I think that I have learned that it's -- I want to be extremely cautious with words because you can say one word that you think is great in an audience. You may be in a local audience in New Hampshire, where I have such a great feel and such great friendships in New Hampshire, and you may say something, one word and you know it's a little bit controversial but you're in this audience, and the next day it's the front page of a newspaper. So you do have to be very careful with your language. There's no question about it.

Joe Scarborough

00:10:01 - 00:10:11 (10 sec)

You said also when you were asked about a month ago what you would do differently, seems like you said that again, you would guard your words a bit more carefully.

Donald Trump

00:10:11 - 00:10:35 (24 sec)

I think so. You know, it works well in a room with, you know, 1,000 people or 2,000 people and you're all having a lot fun together. But in the meantime, Mark Halperin sitting in the back of the room with his notebook, and it ends up being a somewhat catastrophic word. So everyone is laughing, everyone is having a good time until the next day when I say, you know, I shouldn't have said that. So you have to be very careful with your words.

Joe Scarborough

00:10:35 - 00:10:57 (22 sec)

So Donald, I'm going to follow up on this because I always ask people, whether I'm asking about a job or whether I'm interviewing them, what the low point in their life is. Not trying to be Oprah or anything, but what was your biggest setback, what did you learn from that, and how did you get off the mat and become a better person because of that?

Mika Brzezinski

00:10:57 - 00:10:57 (0 sec)

Joe Scarborough

00:10:57 - 00:11:06 (9 sec)

What, for you, what was the low point of your life and how did you become a better person by walking through that personal hell?

Donald Trump

00:11:06 - 00:11:41 (35 sec)

I would say, you know, the loss of my parents. I lost my father and my mother and that was very difficult because I had great parents. But that is something that people go through and it's sort of, that's the way it's supposed to be in the chain of events, but I would say that the loss of my brother. I had a brother, Fred, and he taught me a lot and he was a terrific guy and when I lost him -- because that is not according to the way it's supposed to work -- a long time ago. And I was able to, you know, it was a very tough thing. I was able to get off the mat. But I had a wonderful brother, Fred, who was very instructive and taught me a lot.

Joe Scarborough

00:11:41 - 00:11:45 (4 sec)

How did that change you? How did that make you a better person, the loss of your brother?

Donald Trump

00:11:45 - 00:12:10 (25 sec)

Well, I just think that the fact that I was able to recover from it. He was very instructive. He was able to give me great advice over the years as to alcohol, as to smoking, as to -- you know -- drugs weren't prevalent, I guess, in those days. But it would have been that too. But he gave me great advice over the years. I would say because that's not the chain of events that you expect. That was something that was very tough.

Joe Scarborough

00:12:10 - 00:12:12 (2 sec)

Is that why you don't drink alcohol?

Donald Trump

00:12:12 - 00:12:13 (1 sec)

Joe Scarborough

00:12:13 - 00:12:14 (1 sec)

Because of his death?

Donald Trump

00:12:14 - 00:12:27 (13 sec)

Who knows, if I did, who knows if I'd even be talking to you right now. You know. I do have that type of personality. I may not be on the phone with you right now. So you know, that was actually -- he was a great teacher, in a sense.

Joe Scarborough

00:12:27 - 00:12:28 (1 sec)

Mike Barnicle

00:12:28 - 00:12:48 (20 sec)

Donald, in your business career you've assessed the field, your competition and you've almost invariably won. You've beaten them. As you assess the political field in this primary season, who do you think is your biggest opposition and how do you deal with the opposition with that person? Who is the candidate who is the biggest opposition to you?

Donald Trump

00:12:48 - 00:13:11 (23 sec)

Well I thought, just by the normal chain of events, I thought and by, you know, history, it would be Jeb Bush and I guess that's why people said boy, you've really hit him hard -- Because I -- you know, everybody was saying, well he's going to ascend to the throne like we're dealing with thrones in this country, and so far -- I'm not sure what will happen. Who knows what will happen, Mike.

Donald Trump

00:13:11 - 00:13:43 (32 sec)

But so far that certainly has been the case. And so I went after him. I'm surprised at Ben Carson, but I go after Ben Carson. Whatever happens, happens. I mean, somebody would say -- oh, you go -- I don't know. That's my whole life. If somebody is an opponent, I want to win. Ben Carson is now doing well and I think Ben Carson has a lot of problems with his record, if you look at his record, including going back in past and, you know, those problems are going to start to come out. It's an amazing -- It's almost like -- When you're in first place, it's like a cleansing action.

Donald Trump

00:13:43 - 00:14:02 (19 sec)

Some of it is very unfair cleansing. But it really is like a cleansing action. A lot of things will come out now and we'll see how he holds up to the scrutiny. I've been there for I guess 100 and some odd days and we'll see how it all, you know, how Ben holds up to the scrutiny. But Ben has a lot of things in his past that we'll see. I mean, we'll see how he holds up.

Joe Scarborough

00:14:02 - 00:14:04 (2 sec)

Eugene Robinson

00:14:04 - 00:14:06 (2 sec)

Donald, good morning.

Donald Trump

00:14:06 - 00:14:07 (1 sec)

Eugene Robinson

00:14:07 - 00:14:48 (41 sec)

Hi. Listen, there are a lot of people in the Republican establishment I would guess who right now are high-fiving each other because of that CBS poll, because of a poll showing Carson ahead of you, because their theory is that you are just a front-runner, that you won't round from behind, that f you're not ahead and if you can't say that you're ahead in your campaign speeches and rallies, that you will fade, that you will even lose interest, that you don't -- that the one thing you could never stand would be to lose a primary or to not be in first place. Are they right? Are -- does this sort of dampen your enthusiasm for this whole enterprise?

Donald Trump

00:14:48 - 00:15:11 (23 sec)

No, they're wrong, Gene. You know, I was called by a person that you would know very well, highly, highly respected journalist, and called me about a month ago and said how does it feel? I said how does what feel? How does it feel to do what you've done? This is the summer of Trump. And it's amazing what's happened. How does it feel? And I said, well, it doesn't feel anything I haven't won.

Donald Trump

00:15:11 - 00:15:52 (41 sec)

He said, yes, you have. You've done something that nobody has done ever in politics the way you've dominated. And I said, well, I don't consider that dominating because unless you win -- and he said, no, you've already won. And I disagree with him. By the way, somebody you all know very well, a very, very smart guy, who I don't know, but he -- I mean I don't know him well. He just called out of the blue and I don't know, he was going to do a story or is doing a story. The fact is that I consider -- you have to win. I'm in it to the end. Now I think if I don't make it, which, of course, now people say oh, he said he -- but it's certainly a possibility that I won't make it -- I'll still be proud of my effort because I think I've done very well.

Donald Trump

00:15:52 - 00:16:07 (15 sec)

I'm not a politician. I've run so far a great race. I will continue to run a great race. What happens, Gene, I can't tell you what happens. Who knows. But I think I've done a very commendable job according to almost everybody.

Willie Geist

00:16:07 - 00:16:36 (29 sec)

Donald, one of the big arguments for your campaign has been that you're going to bring the jobs back. They're coming back to America. And you said something yesterday at our town hall that you badgered Ford Motor so much that now they've canceled plans to open a plant in Mexico, bring those jobs back to the United States. Ford came out yesterday after that and said that's just not true. We're still investing in Mexico, not opening any new plants. And John Kasich jumped on it and said the case you're talking about was because of his work and it was in 2011. So did you misspeak about that story yesterday?

Donald Trump

00:16:36 - 00:16:58 (22 sec)

No. I just -- I'm saying I've been hitting Ford because they're building this massive plant in Mexico and they should be building it here. And they are bringing jobs back now and I think one of the reasons that they're bringing the jobs back is because I've been hitting Ford very hard in a lot of speeches. And not only Ford, I've been hitting Nabisco -- you know, Nabisco is moving out of Chicago into Mexico.

Donald Trump

00:16:58 - 00:17:33 (35 sec)

Many, many -- they're moving a big plant. Many, many companies are moving into Mexico. You know, Mexico's going to be the new China if you want to know the truth. And I've been hitting Ford very hard and they're bringing back -- and I give credit to Kasich, I give credit to everybody. We should be fighting that this shouldn't happen. And he has fought for that. But I'm really saying I think I put a lot of pressure on Ford to make decisions and get things going faster. Now they shouldn't build that plant, they shouldn't have been allowed to build the plant in the first place. We should've kept it here but we didn't that have leaders that could do that, Willie.

Joe Scarborough

00:17:33 - 00:17:35 (2 sec)

All right, Donald Trump, thank you so much.

Mika Brzezinski

00:17:35 - 00:17:37 (2 sec)

Thank you, Donald.

Willie Geist

00:17:37 - 00:17:38 (1 sec)

Thanks, Donald.

Joe Scarborough

00:17:38 - 00:17:39 (1 sec)

Greatly appreciate it as always.