Transcript - PBS: Interview with Charlie Rose and Donald Trump - November 6, 1992 | Factba.se

Charlie Rose

00:00:00 - 00:00:32.800 (33 sec)

Welcome to our broadcast. Tonight we spend the hour with a man who's already left his own unique mark on the face and history of New York City. If Donald Trump is not in the news for a high stakes-deal or a controversial new development, he may be in a gossip column within his latest relationship but less than 2 years ago the news was that the Trump empire was in trouble and some were quick to announce that the kind had lost his crown. Donald Trump, some say, is out to prove them wrong and is currently writing his third book which is "The Art of the Comeback." That's what we want to start with . Donald Trump is here. I'm pleased to have you.

Donald Trump

00:00:32.800 - 00:00:34.600 (2 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:00:34.600 - 00:00:36.400 (2 sec)

Nice to have you here.

Donald Trump

00:00:36.400 - 00:00:38.300 (2 sec)

It's been a long time.

Charlie Rose

00:00:38.300 - 00:00:46 (8 sec)

It has. In New Orleans back during the Republican Convention in a little room actually talking about the challenge of the Japanese at that time.

Donald Trump

00:00:46 - 00:00:48.200 (2 sec)

That's exactly right, exactly right.

Charlie Rose

00:00:48.200 - 00:01:14.100 (26 sec)

Now here is "Trump: The Art of the Deal." This is "Trump: Surviving at the Top." Here is the "Casino Journal" saying "Gaming's Greatest Comeback." Here is, guess what? "Casino Player: The Comeback Kid, Donald Trump's Amazing Turnaround." Here is "New York Magazine" out this week, "Fighting Back: Trump Scrambles Off the Canvas." Bill Clinton after the New Hampshire primary went out front and had a press conference. He said, "Even though the king's second, I'm the comeback kid."

Donald Trump

00:01:14.100 - 00:01:16.200 (2 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:01:16.200 - 00:01:26.900 (11 sec)

Look at what happened to Bill Clinton. If you could translate that for you, where would it be? Where would it take you to? What would be the equivalent of reaching the White House for you?

Donald Trump

00:01:26.900 - 00:02:26.100 (59 sec)

I think just doing what I'm doing, Charlie. I've had a really great streak over the last year. A lot of people went down. The economy was in a horrible condition, just a deplorable condition. The politicians destroyed the economy in 1986 when they passed a tax law that just destroyed the real estate investor which in turn destroyed the banks and the savings banks and savings and loans. I really got very lucky when I built the Taj Mahal which everyone said, "That's going to be his downfall." The Taj Mahal is over $1 billion building. It's turned out to be one of the best deals I've ever made. It broke records for the last 3 months. It went over $40 million a month. No casino in history has won anywhere near that. All 3 of my casinos were rated 4 stars by the Mobile Travel Guide. They're the only casinos in the United States that are so rated. It's really been an incredible period of 6 or 7 months for me. It's really been gratifying. Now they really want to do the comeback stories and everything else. I think I probably care less about that than I would have maybe 3 or 4 years ago but it's been a pretty good experience for me.

Charlie Rose

00:02:26.100 - 00:02:31.400 (5 sec)

Then how are you different than you were 3 or 4 years ago?

Donald Trump

00:02:31.400 - 00:02:43.100 (12 sec)

I used to say, and in fact I think I said in my first book and maybe this was foolish but I really meant it, that someday I'd like to maybe lose everything for a period of time to see who's loyal and who's not loyal. Frankly, I found out that [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:02:43.100 - 00:02:47.300 (4 sec)

Did you find out who's loyal and who's not loyal?

Donald Trump

00:02:47.300 - 00:02:59.300 (12 sec)

I'll tell you what. You can't guess it. You can't predict it. You think certain people would be loyal no matter what. It turns out that they're not. You just can't predict it. It's very difficult.

Charlie Rose

00:02:59.300 - 00:03:00.800 (2 sec)

What hurt the most?

Donald Trump

00:03:00.800 - 00:03:18.800 (18 sec)

That's a whole different scene, Charlie. We have a situation where you have everything going, everything going perfectly. The one day you wake up. The world is coming to an end from the standpoint of the economy but I just think that I've had a lot of luck. I've had a lot of friends. I've had a lot of good friends. Overall, I've done really well with it. I'm very happy about it.

Charlie Rose

00:03:18.800 - 00:03:50.800 (32 sec)

Help me go back and understand what it was to be you and what happened. You were hit and other real estate developers. Some people have not been able to come back. Some developers in Canada and in the Untied States who had a magnificent reputation for quality and for the deal are still in bankruptcy in fact. How hard did it get for you? What was it like for you before the crash? Then how low did it get for you when things began to go bad? People were counting you out and saying that not only could you not recover but that you were that far from bankruptcy?

Donald Trump

00:03:50.800 - 00:04:16.400 (26 sec)

I never thought I was that far from bankruptcy but a lot of people were giving me a hard time. I think overall, Charlie, it was an experience that I don't think I want to go through it again. I have to tell you this. You know what it's like. You're really in a position where I think that if you had to do it again, I'm not sure you could. I went through a period of 2 years that was truly tough.

Charlie Rose

00:04:16.400 - 00:04:19.200 (3 sec)

Tough in what way?

Donald Trump

00:04:19.200 - 00:04:33.700 (15 sec)

You have parents. You have people that adore you. You have people that for 15 years nothing went wrong. Then all of a sudden the world seems to be coming to an end. It just seems to be coming. It was just an incredible experience for me.

Charlie Rose

00:04:33.700 - 00:04:43.600 (10 sec)

Did you have to go to your father and say, "Bail me out. Help me. Help me get through this crisis one more time."

Donald Trump

00:04:43.600 - 00:05:21.800 (38 sec)

My father wouldn't have been in a position to bail me out but he certainly helped and Marley in any way he could. My mother was great. I have a sister who's a Federal judge. She's very, very strong. She's a fantastic woman. I never knew as to loyalty whether or not she'd be there or wouldn't be there. She was there in spades. Other people were there but the incredible thing is you can't really tell who's going to be there and who's to. I would have bet my life on certain people. I would have said politically that someone you know, Andrew Stein, would have been there. He wasn't. I would have said that other people --

Charlie Rose

00:05:21.800 - 00:05:23.700 (2 sec)

Would have been there for what?

Donald Trump

00:05:23.700 - 00:05:44 (20 sec)

He wasn't there in terms of for 15 years I supported Andrew Stein, supported him. I never asked him for a thing. When I needed a vote at 1 Riverside South until the very end when everybody else was on-board, Andrew was not there. I was really surprised at that. Now ultimately, he was there but it shouldn't have been so difficult. It really shouldn't have been.

Charlie Rose

00:05:44 - 00:05:56.100 (12 sec)

I understand but here comes one of the things they say about you is that there ticks within you a vindictiveness about that. You're not going to forget that. Part of the Trump style is to at some point try to get Stein back.

Donald Trump

00:05:56.100 - 00:06:11.900 (16 sec)

I don't think I'm going to try and get Stein back. I'm just disappointed. I'm disappointed in other people. I'm not disappointed in some. There have been people that were much more -- A man like Allan Greenberg or Bear Sterns who would call me every day doing the --

Charlie Rose

00:06:11.900 - 00:06:13.400 (2 sec)

What would he say?

Donald Trump

00:06:13.400 - 00:06:44.500 (31 sec)

He'd just call me and boost me. He'd say, "Just keep fighting. Just keep fighting." He's really a phenomenal guy and a great leader. That's why Bear Sterns. Without any big parent company, Bear Sterns has just done tremendously well but Allan has been a really loyal friends. I've had a lot of other friends but the thing -- I guess I'm going to go into this in the third book. I do one book. It's a best seller. I do another book. It's a best-seller. Both books were Number 1. Frankly, I think this is the best book. I think this will be best book because I really believe I know much more now than I did for the other 2.

Charlie Rose

00:06:44.500 - 00:06:45.800 (1 sec)

What do you know?

Donald Trump

00:06:45.800 - 00:07:05.500 (20 sec)

I've learned about hardship, something which really I didn't know. I went to the best school. I did great. You go to the Wharton School of Finance. You go through ti easily. You do fantastically well. Everything goes smooth. You get out of school. You make a lot of money. Every deal works out. It was just a series of you couldn't make a mistake.

Charlie Rose

00:07:05.500 - 00:07:07.200 (2 sec)

Did you think you were invincible at that time?

Donald Trump

00:07:07.200 - 00:07:35.900 (29 sec)

I never thought I was invincible because I've seen too much. You have to learn from history about others. I never thought I was invincible but I had a 15-year run that was virtually unprecedented. I had a tremendous run. All of a sudden, 1990 it. I remember there was an article, "Welcome to the '90s," but 1990 hit. The economy was crashing. The banks were crashing. Everything was crashing. What happened is I learned a lot about myself. I learned a lot about other people.

Charlie Rose

00:07:35.900 - 00:07:40.700 (5 sec)

You keep saying, "I learned. I learned." What did you learn about yourself? What was it?

Donald Trump

00:07:40.700 - 00:08:00.100 (19 sec)

I think I learned for real that I'm a pretty tough guy because you really -- takes a tough guy. It takes the brains. It takes the this but it also takes a toughness because to go through a period of turmoil where everything seems to be going in the wrong direction and survive it and end up as they say in my new magazine coves are coming back.

Charlie Rose

00:08:00.100 - 00:08:11.700 (12 sec)

Yeah but what they say here, what Greenberg says, is that Trump went from owning 100% of nothing to 50% of something that's making money. Fair?

Donald Trump

00:08:11.700 - 00:08:16.600 (5 sec)

I think that's what he said. He actually said making a lot of money. [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:08:16.600 - 00:08:19.700 (3 sec)

That's right. He did say that.

Donald Trump

00:08:19.700 - 00:08:53 (33 sec)

What's happened is that the casinos have turned out to be tremendous for money. Again, a lot of people were criticizing the move into the casinos at all but they really turned out to be tremendous. Real estate in New York is starting to come back on a very slow basis. I don't know how long it's going to take. I think it's going to take a long time but the casinos in particular have been fantastic but it's just worked out for me. It hasn't worked out for a lot other people. I think a lot of that has to do with an inner strength. That's what I'm going to be writing about. A lot of it also though has to do with other people, the loyalties of other people, how you've treated other people so that maybe they are loyal.

Charlie Rose

00:08:53 - 00:08:54.800 (2 sec)

Did it split the family?

Donald Trump

00:08:54.800 - 00:08:56.600 (2 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:08:56.600 - 00:09:00.400 (4 sec)

Did it cause division between you and your brother?

Donald Trump

00:09:00.400 - 00:09:12.500 (12 sec)

It didn't cause division. I was a little disappointed in my brother. I thought he would have fought harder than he did. I was the opposite of my sister. I have a sister who is really a phenomenal lady. She really --

Charlie Rose

00:09:12.500 - 00:09:14.700 (2 sec)

This id the judge.

Donald Trump

00:09:14.700 - 00:09:31.900 (17 sec)

The judge. She really was just tremendous. My other sister likewise was tremendous. My parents have always been what I would expect them to be. It's interesting. One of my attorneys said, "Always count on your mother." I maybe took advantage of my mother. I never appreciated her as much but she was really fantastic.

Charlie Rose

00:09:31.900 - 00:09:41.100 (9 sec)

It is also said you came out in defense of Mike Tyson. You came up with these (inaudible ). It is said that your mother said, "Enough, Donald. Shut up."

Donald Trump

00:09:41.100 - 00:09:52.200 (11 sec)

I think that's probably the first time that my mother absolutely got angry at me. I really mean that. My mother was so crazy when I came out in defense of Mike Tyson. Part of the reason I came out in defense --

Charlie Rose

00:09:52.200 - 00:09:54.100 (2 sec)

Your mother's, what, 80 something?

Donald Trump

00:09:54.100 - 00:09:57.600 (4 sec)

My mother's 80 years old. Part of the reason that --

Charlie Rose

00:09:57.600 - 00:09:59.200 (2 sec)

She's tough enough to survive a mugging.

Donald Trump

00:09:59.200 - 00:10:03.300 (4 sec)

She's tough but she's quality. More than tough, she's quality.

Charlie Rose

00:10:03.300 - 00:10:05.200 (2 sec)

Donald Trump

00:10:05.200 - 00:10:59.700 (55 sec)

She didn't exactly like the fact that I was defending Iron Mike but I watched what happened to Mike Tyson. I watched how badly he was represented by an attorney in Washington that was charging him $3, $4 or $5 million against a local attorney, the best within 100 miles, that the state hired who just ate the other man's lunch. I watched the way he did it. I heard about a girl that late in the evening knocked on his door, was taken in, was raped perhaps, perhaps not. I don't know. Again, I think he was badly represented but I did see that Number 1, she knocks late in the night. Number 2, she's dancing in a beauty contest at 8:00AM. I saw the tapes. I see the big smile on her face. She's dancing happily at 8:00AM. Then Mike Tyson's in jail for 4, 5 or 6 years. I had a real problem with that case. I had a real problem with Mike Tyson's lawyers. I had a real problem with Don King. I just think that he was really fed out to the wolves.

Charlie Rose

00:10:59.700 - 00:11:06.700 (7 sec)

But if, in fact, he raped her in that hotel room regardless of whether she came there, you think that he should have been convicted and then should have gone to the slammer?

Donald Trump

00:11:06.700 - 00:11:34.100 (27 sec)

He to this day denies it. I don't know that it happened. I think that as they said if he didn't testify, he would have been exonerated totally. The jury said that. Mike was arrogant. He was a horrible witness from what I understand. I'm not surprised. I would say that generally speaking, you don't put Mike on as a witness but he was a horrible witness. To get 4, 5, or 6 years, I think that there was just too many circumstances. Again, she was in a beauty contest. She was dancing with a big smile on her face at 8:00AM.

Charlie Rose

00:11:34.100 - 00:11:49 (15 sec)

Yeah but the jury sat there. They listened to her too. They had an opportunity to hear her and test her credibility as they heard it and also to face questions. This guy's not a bad lawyer. He might have handled this case bad but he's the same man that represented John Hinckley and others and had an extraordinary reputation in a very good Washington firm.

Donald Trump

00:11:49 - 00:12:12.800 (24 sec)

I watched Mike. I've been with Mike. I've seen him. People really take advantage of this man. I want to tell you something. I think this is one of those examples. Now I know we have a system of juries. We have a system where if you're found guilty, you're guilty but somebody like me and maybe who has a little bit more independent streak can say, "Hey, Mike Tyson in my opinion should really be given another break." They put him in jail before he was even guilty as far as I was concerned.

Charlie Rose

00:12:12.800 - 00:12:17 (4 sec)

Do you believe he'll fight again? Do you believe he'll ever be the heavyweight champ again?

Donald Trump

00:12:17 - 00:12:27.400 (10 sec)

I think he'll fight again. I don't know that he'll be the heavyweight champ again. In the prison that he's in, they don't allow boxing. That's a long way off. Some of the young fighters that are coming up in the heavyweight division are great.

Charlie Rose

00:12:27.400 - 00:12:28.800 (1 sec)

But Ali came back from years [crosstalk].

Donald Trump

00:12:28.800 - 00:12:41.500 (13 sec)

Ali came back. He was totally unique. He was a unique man. Maybe Mike will come back. I think Mike probably will be the champion again but you have some young fighters coming up, heavyweight fighters like Llenox Lewis who is absolutely phenomenal.

Charlie Rose

00:12:41.500 - 00:12:43.100 (2 sec)

Do you think Holyfield's going to lose.

Donald Trump

00:12:43.100 - 00:12:49.600 (7 sec)

I think Holyfield .. I'm not sure if he's going to lose now but I think the next champion's going to be Llenox Lewis.

Charlie Rose

00:12:49.600 - 00:12:50.900 (1 sec)

He sure did a number on --

Donald Trump

00:12:50.900 - 00:12:53.900 (3 sec)

I know. He was incredible.

Charlie Rose

00:12:53.900 - 00:12:55.200 (1 sec)

Donald Trump

00:12:55.200 - 00:12:56.700 (2 sec)

He knocked out -

Charlie Rose

00:12:56.700 - 00:12:58.300 (2 sec)

First round, wasn't it?

Donald Trump

00:12:58.300 - 00:13:00 (2 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:13:00 - 00:13:01.500 (2 sec)

Or second round.

Donald Trump

00:13:01.500 - 00:13:03.100 (2 sec)

This gentleman went 18 or 20 rounds with Mike.

Charlie Rose

00:13:03.100 - 00:13:06.400 (3 sec)

But that was his claim to fame, that he survived being in the ring with Tyson.

Donald Trump

00:13:06.400 - 00:13:13.500 (7 sec)

Llenox Lewis is probably the real thing. He could be the first real thing since Mike. It will be interesting. He's younger. He's this and that.

Charlie Rose

00:13:13.500 - 00:13:17.300 (4 sec)

What is your fascination? Are you an athlete?

Donald Trump

00:13:17.300 - 00:13:19 (2 sec)

I am pretty much of an athlete.

Charlie Rose

00:13:19 - 00:13:20.500 (2 sec)

A scratch golfer or close --

Donald Trump

00:13:20.500 - 00:13:21.900 (1 sec)

Scratch golfer.

Charlie Rose

00:13:21.900 - 00:13:23.500 (2 sec)

You mean like you do par 72, 73?

Donald Trump

00:13:23.500 - 00:13:25.100 (2 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:13:25.100 - 00:13:26.900 (2 sec)

On good courses?

Donald Trump

00:13:26.900 - 00:13:28.700 (2 sec)

On good courses.

Charlie Rose

00:13:28.700 - 00:13:29.900 (1 sec)

Up against good players?

Donald Trump

00:13:29.900 - 00:13:31.200 (1 sec)

Up against good players.

Charlie Rose

00:13:31.200 - 00:13:32.500 (1 sec)

For money or not for money?

Donald Trump

00:13:32.500 - 00:13:44.500 (12 sec)

I like playing for money because it gives you an interest. It really does. Golf was something that really helped me through a period. When I was when I was really - There's a point at which you can't push. You have to sit back and wait and see how the chips are falling.

Charlie Rose

00:13:44.500 - 00:13:46.100 (2 sec)

During the adversity period?

Donald Trump

00:13:46.100 - 00:14:13.900 (28 sec)

During the adversity period. I'd go out on the golf course. Sometimes I'd go out with some friends who are good golfers. You play. You really don't think about all of the problems of the world and the problems of other things. Again, I'd like to blame myself but one of the things is frankly I as doing so well and it was all so easy that I took it easy. All of a sudden, I started relying on other people. I said, "Listen. You went to the Wharton School of Finance. You're a genius. You take care of this. You take care of that. You do this." I stopped. I got really pitiful. I did it myself. Since then things have been fantastic. It's just been [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:14:13.900 - 00:14:17.600 (4 sec)

'92. The best year of your life?

Donald Trump

00:14:17.600 - 00:14:23.300 (6 sec)

I think '92 could be certainly one of the best years of my life because it really all came together for me, financially speaking and in so many other ways.

Charlie Rose

00:14:23.300 - 00:14:34.900 (12 sec)

I read all these numbers. This is not investigative journalism here. We're interested in what makes you tick. We don't have the resources, the manpower or the time doing a nightly show to do what somebody would do if they spent 6 months working on a piece about you.

Donald Trump

00:14:34.900 - 00:14:36.700 (2 sec)

But you do have a brain.

Charlie Rose

00:14:36.700 - 00:14:40.700 (4 sec)

Help me with the numbers. Do you owe $5 billion?

Donald Trump

00:14:40.700 - 00:14:48.500 (8 sec)

At one point I guess I owed pretty close to $5 billion but I had assets far in excess of that. They passed 1 986 tax law which was just absolute stupidity by the politicians.

Charlie Rose

00:14:48.500 - 00:14:57.600 (9 sec)

Yeah but a lot of people supported that. [crosstalk] and Bill Bradley and a lot of other people [crosstalk] with the tax reform act of all time [crosstalk] and Jack Kemp too, did he not?

Donald Trump

00:14:57.600 - 00:15:03.700 (6 sec)

I like Bill Bradley. I like a lot of the people that you mentioned. They didn't really support but Bill Bradley did very much --

Charlie Rose

00:15:03.700 - 00:15:05.800 (2 sec)

Bill Bradley, it was hi [crosstalk].

Donald Trump

00:15:05.800 - 00:15:11.400 (6 sec)

-- but I have to tell you he destroyed the home building industry in the United States. he destroyed the savings and loans industry.

Charlie Rose

00:15:11.400 - 00:15:13 (2 sec)

The Tax Reform Act of '86 he did?

Donald Trump

00:15:13 - 00:15:30.300 (17 sec)

Absolutely. What happened was incentive was taken out of the real estate industry. The industry is such as saving sand loan. They're based on real estate. When the values went down -- They're permanent. They're absolutely permanent. The savings and loan had billions of dollars in real estate that now all of a sudden is one-half the billions of dollars in real estate.

Charlie Rose

00:15:30.300 - 00:15:40.500 (10 sec)

Yeah but you know better than I do that during that time the savings and loan crisis came about because a lot of savings and loan lent a lot of money to developers that were bad loans that should not ever have been made. Then all of a sudden --

Donald Trump

00:15:40.500 - 00:16:03.600 (23 sec)

That's true. I have to tell you it's 100% true but a lot of that was exacerbated. A lot of loans that could have been good loans were made into bad loans because of the change, because of the '86 tax law change. What that did is all of a sudden you had resolution trust. You're paying billions and billions. In order to save $5 billion in taxes, we're now paying trillions of dollars to save industries and save banks and save [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:16:03.600 - 00:16:10.500 (7 sec)

Some people have come along and made a ton of money because [crosstalk]. Didn't I see where Ron (inaudible ) the other day made $1 billion or something?

Donald Trump

00:16:10.500 - 00:16:28.200 (18 sec)

I don't know what he made but frankly, he's a good man. I hope he did make a lot of money but it's the government's fault. The government passed a very stupid law. They have to put the incentive back into real estate. I think we're doing it. I think they're going to do it [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:16:28.200 - 00:16:57.800 (30 sec)

Here's the other side. It is that people with great entrepreneurial gifts like you but you get yourself extended too far, too much debt and too much expense. Then as happens in America, there is a business cycle. When the economy goes up and goes down if you get yourself extended too far and you've got a huge debt service, all of a sudden push comes to shove. You find yourself in a very, very, between a rock and a hard place. Is it that, extending yourself too far, that causes so many people to come to ruin?

Donald Trump

00:16:57.800 - 00:17:08.300 (11 sec)

I think you're right. I'm not going to not take blame for that. I think anybody takes blame for that because anybody that does anything -- The only people that don't get in trouble are the people that don't do anything.

Charlie Rose

00:17:08.300 - 00:17:12.200 (4 sec)

Sure. If you play it safe and no risk, then there's no reward.

Donald Trump

00:17:12.200 - 00:17:24.800 (13 sec)

When I do things like built the Taj Mahal they said, "$1 billion building? How can it possibly?" Now it's turned out to be tremendously successful. It takes time. You've got to be able to get over the hump. Riverside South is going to be tremendously.

Charlie Rose

00:17:24.800 - 00:17:42.600 (18 sec)

Let's stop at Riverside South though. First of all, here is one of the arguments made about Riverside South, that you faced a huge opposition on the part of the Planning Commission. A lot of people who did not want to see a huge development, you turned it around. Most people give you the credit for turning it around. You ended up with, what is it, 9 and 0? How many people on the Commission? I don't remember.

Donald Trump

00:17:42.600 - 00:17:44 (1 sec)

We had 12 of them.

Charlie Rose

00:17:44 - 00:17:51.200 (7 sec)

A 12/0 vote. How did you do it? Did you make so many concessions in doing it that it no longer is an economically-viable project?

Donald Trump

00:17:51.200 - 00:18:11.400 (20 sec)

The only way you can talk about viability is what's going to happen with the market. Today's nothing viable. Today nothing is viable. You can have the greatest piece of land and the best location in New York. Nothing's viable. When I did the Grand Hyatt Hotel, I will tell you the hotel market was in shambles. Everybody said, "Donald, you're crazy." I was crazy. I did it. All of a sudden, I got it jumped. I started building it. By the time it opened, it was a tremendous job.

Charlie Rose

00:18:11.400 - 00:18:15.600 (4 sec)

Yeah but would it have been successful without the zoning and the abatements

Donald Trump

00:18:15.600 - 00:18:18.600 (3 sec)

No, it wouldn't have been. [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:18:18.600 - 00:18:20.300 (2 sec)

But you got the concession.

Donald Trump

00:18:20.300 - 00:18:29 (9 sec)

Absolutely. Now what we're doing is we're asking for certain things in order to make Riverside South successful. We have tremendous popularity. Ever civil association virtually in New York is supporting it.

Charlie Rose

00:18:29 - 00:18:32.700 (4 sec)

But they're supporting it because of the concessions you made in terms of the subway --

Donald Trump

00:18:32.700 - 00:18:34.600 (2 sec)

Yes. I know [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:18:34.600 - 00:18:38.100 (4 sec)

-- [crosstalk] and all of that kind of thing. The question remains can you deliver on it?

Donald Trump

00:18:38.100 - 00:19:03.300 (25 sec)

The bottom line is if the market comes back, you deliver. If the market doesn't come back, you don't deliver. Now maybe Clinton's going to come up with a housing program where you're getting subsidized housing or something in which case you do it in a different way. We're looking to get zoning for a piece of land that's un-zoned, that's employing no people, that's sitting there rotting. It's rat-infested. If I get the zoning which I hope to be able to get, the city desperately needs the job, if the city turns around, then if the economy turns around and incentives are put back into real estate on a Federal basis --

Charlie Rose

00:19:03.300 - 00:19:04.700 (1 sec)

Donald Trump

00:19:04.700 - 00:19:20.100 (15 sec)

No, no. There's always if but there's been if's in everything I've ever do one. When I did Trump Tower (inaudible ), people said I was totally crazy. It couldn't possibly succeed. It aws too big. It aws too expensive. It was too everything. It turned out to be probably the most successful condominium development ever in this country.

Charlie Rose

00:19:20.100 - 00:19:21.200 (1 sec)

Is it profitable?

Donald Trump

00:19:21.200 - 00:19:22.600 (1 sec)

The Trump Tower?

Charlie Rose

00:19:22.600 - 00:19:23.900 (1 sec)

Donald Trump

00:19:23.900 - 00:19:45.500 (22 sec)

The most. It was the most successful development ever built in this country on a condominium basis. I will tell you 2 years before I started construction, people thought I was totally crazy to do it. It really worked out to be fantastic. You can say the Taj Mahal, you can say Trump Plaza. So many of the jobs I do at the time I'm doing them are supposed to be not good. They turn out to be tremendous.

Charlie Rose

00:19:45.500 - 00:19:50.800 (5 sec)

Who makes the decision as to when you go ahead? Is that a decision made by you --

Donald Trump

00:19:50.800 - 00:19:52.500 (2 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:19:52.500 - 00:19:54.200 (2 sec)

-- or is that decision made by the bank?

Donald Trump

00:19:54.200 - 00:19:56.100 (2 sec)

No, no, no. It's made by me.

Charlie Rose

00:19:56.100 - 00:19:57.700 (2 sec)

A partial vote projects (inaudible )?

Donald Trump

00:19:57.700 - 00:20:22.700 (25 sec)

I'll tell you what. The City is lucky to have the bankers that I have on my job because they've invested a lot. They have confidence in me. They have confidence in the City. Frankly, they're very lucky because otherwise, it could be a war. It could be a this. It could be a that. That would be bad for everybody. I have some really great banks on this particular site. They've gone with me. They believe in me. I'll tell you what? I think ultimately the decision's going to be right. It's going to a great success.

Charlie Rose

00:20:22.700 - 00:20:28 (5 sec)

You know what they say? When you owe as much money as you did, they become your partners.

Donald Trump

00:20:28 - 00:20:33.700 (6 sec)

Yeah but that's really a false statement because Reichman owed a lot more money than me. Nobody's partners with Reichman.

Charlie Rose

00:20:33.700 - 00:20:35.400 (2 sec)

They went bankrupt.

Donald Trump

00:20:35.400 - 00:20:37.200 (2 sec)

Reichman's in deep trouble.

Charlie Rose

00:20:37.200 - 00:20:40.900 (4 sec)

Are they in bankruptcy? I want to be fair to them.

Donald Trump

00:20:40.900 - 00:20:50.600 (10 sec)

They are in bankruptcy. Frankly, they're just in real deep trouble. My banks have had a great confidence in me. They know I'm good. They know I do it the best. They also know that I'm honest and [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:20:50.600 - 00:20:52.300 (2 sec)

But did they have a choice?

Donald Trump

00:20:52.300 - 00:20:55.500 (3 sec)

Absolutely. They had a lot of money [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:20:55.500 - 00:20:58.800 (3 sec)

They had a lot of money at stake. [crosstalk] their loan back.

Donald Trump

00:20:58.800 - 00:21:06.400 (8 sec)

I'm not saying it would have been easy had the other route gone but I will tell you. I will tell you. They absolutely had a choice. They could have gone a different route.

Charlie Rose

00:21:06.400 - 00:21:07.900 (2 sec)

What's the route they could have gone?

Donald Trump

00:21:07.900 - 00:21:17.900 (10 sec)

It could have been a contingence route rather than working and working with me, et cetera. It could have been a contingence route. That would have been bad for me. It would have been bad for them [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:21:17.900 - 00:21:24.100 (6 sec)

They could have put you up against the wall and said, "You owe us this money. You can't pay it back. We call the tune."

Donald Trump

00:21:24.100 - 00:21:32.100 (8 sec)

They could have done that. I think if they did that, it would have been bad for everybody, including them. I think they understood that but more importantly, see, I found out --

Charlie Rose

00:21:32.100 - 00:21:33.700 (2 sec)

Bad for them because they would have lost money.

Donald Trump

00:21:33.700 - 00:22:03.500 (30 sec)

Pretty much I think so. I think so. I found out a couple of things about banks. First of all, I find the banks to be very, very underrated in terms of the intelligence level, the whole thing. I have worked with the banks very closely now for a period of 2 years. These guys have done a fantastic job, at least as far as my stuff is concerned. I've done great for them. They've done great for me. My thing is (inaudible ). I believe that in 6 months, in 12 months, I may be stronger than I was 2 years ago or 3 years ago. I think I will be stronger than I was 2 or 3 years ago. I would like to see an uptake in the market. I think you're going to have an uptake in the market.

Charlie Rose

00:22:03.500 - 00:22:09.500 (6 sec)

Why do you think you'll be stronger? [crosstalk] given up equity.

Donald Trump

00:22:09.500 - 00:22:23.100 (14 sec)

Very little equity. What have I given up? The story is that I gave up equity. What have I given up? I sold the Shuttle for a lot of money.

Charlie Rose

00:22:23.100 - 00:22:27.200 (4 sec)

You sold it for more money tan you paid for or what?

Donald Trump

00:22:27.200 - 00:22:29.100 (2 sec)

No, I'll tell you what.

Charlie Rose

00:22:29.100 - 00:22:32.800 (4 sec)

You still made a lot of money but sold it for less than you paid for it.

Donald Trump

00:22:32.800 - 00:22:37.600 (5 sec)

No, I didn't reduce it. I reduced my debt by hundreds of millions of dollars by the sale of the Shuttle.

Charlie Rose

00:22:37.600 - 00:22:39.200 (2 sec)

But you sold it for less than you paid for it.

Donald Trump

00:22:39.200 - 00:22:40.600 (1 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:22:40.600 - 00:22:41.900 (1 sec)

Donald Trump

00:22:41.900 - 00:22:56.800 (15 sec)

I actually sold it probably for more than I paid for it. It's a very complex formula. If you sit down with a pencil and paper, we could maybe figure it out some day in 5 years because it's a long-term deal. We don't want to bore everybody with it but I sold the Shuttle. I ended up with a tremendous amount of debt. I got rid of a lot of personal guarantees. The Taj Mahal, I, --

Charlie Rose

00:22:56.800 - 00:22:59.800 (3 sec)

What are guarantees? Unsecured loans from friends or what?

Donald Trump

00:22:59.800 - 00:23:09.600 (10 sec)

No, personal guarantees being personal guarantees to banks where I personally guarantee a piece of a loan. Basically, if you take the Atlantic City properties, I have up to 80% of the Taj Mahal. The thing's making a fortune.

Charlie Rose

00:23:09.600 - 00:23:14.500 (5 sec)

Stay with me and answer this question. Is it making a fortune or is it generating a fortune in revenue but has a fortune plus in expenses?

Donald Trump

00:23:14.500 - 00:23:19.600 (5 sec)

It has a big fortune in expenses. It's run first-class. It's a 4-star hotel.

Charlie Rose

00:23:19.600 - 00:23:26.300 (7 sec)

Okay but that's more than -- How much of this in the end is net-net cash flow or how much of it is simply that a lot of money's flowing in but also out the other door is a lot of money going the other way.

Donald Trump

00:23:26.300 - 00:23:59.600 (33 sec)

Let me give you an example. We'll have probably $80 million in interest. I think the Taj could have a cash flow of maybe $30 to $40 million after debt. That's some cash flow. Now that's a great cash flow. Now what do I do with it? I do it with the Westside Yards. I do it with the Riverside South. I do other things but the Taj Mahal's turned out very successfully. Trump Plaza, I own 100% of Trump Plaza. There's this misnomer that I sold. I this. I that. I sold very little. When you think of it [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:23:59.600 - 00:24:10 (10 sec)

But why then would your friend Greenberg from Bear Sterns say you used to own 100% worth of assets that were worth nothing. (Inaudible ) owns 50% of things that are making a lot of money.

Donald Trump

00:24:10 - 00:24:12.300 (2 sec)

What happened in Atlantic City --

Charlie Rose

00:24:12.300 - 00:24:14.400 (2 sec)

Is there a difference?

Donald Trump

00:24:14.400 - 00:24:32.700 (18 sec)

There is a difference. I won 50% of the Castle. Why do I say I won 50%? I'm also paying much less interest because I sold 50% to bondholders. In return for that, I got a reduction in debt or a reduction in this and a reduction in interest so it's making a lot more money. In Trump Plaza's case in Atlantic City, I own 100% of it. That is turning out to be fantastic.

Charlie Rose

00:24:32.700 - 00:24:34.400 (2 sec)

I can take your word on all of this, right?

Donald Trump

00:24:34.400 - 00:24:40.400 (6 sec)

Charlie, I have to tell you because of the fact and a big difference is, and that's why you see in all the casino things, because of the fact --

Charlie Rose

00:24:40.400 - 00:24:45.200 (5 sec)

Yeah but they want to see you as a winner because if you're a winner, it means that they're a winner.

Donald Trump

00:24:45.200 - 00:24:53.100 (8 sec)

They don't want to see me as a winner actually because I have to tell you when things started going good, I was on the cover but instead of my hands being up, I had my chin down. Nobody wants to see me do good.

Charlie Rose

00:24:53.100 - 00:25:00.600 (8 sec)

Let me just stay with that image for a second. Was it embarrassing for you? They say about you, "They took his toys away. They took his yacht away. They took his -- "

Donald Trump

00:25:00.600 - 00:25:02.200 (2 sec)

Nobody took it away. I sold it.

Charlie Rose

00:25:02.200 - 00:25:05 (3 sec)

Yeah but I mean did the banks put you on allowance or not?

Donald Trump

00:25:05 - 00:25:06.400 (1 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:25:06.400 - 00:25:11.200 (5 sec)

Help us understand how bad it got for you, whether you were embarrassed and whether you said, "Wow?"

Donald Trump

00:25:11.200 - 00:25:15.100 (4 sec)

When you say, "Embarrassed," I didn't love waking up in the morning and walking out [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:25:15.100 - 00:25:23.400 (8 sec)

Help me understand us that. You were a guy who was a big winner. All of a sudden the paper spun a story that's saying, "Trump in trouble. Trump, Golden Boy, no longer has Midas touch."

Donald Trump

00:25:23.400 - 00:25:33.200 (10 sec)

No. You know what? I'll tell you what the hardest part is and the hardest thing about life to understand. In baseball fi you get 15 runs in the first inning and you don't get any more runs, you still have 15 runs at the end of the game.

Charlie Rose

00:25:33.200 - 00:25:34.900 (2 sec)

It depends on what the other guys (inaudible ).

Donald Trump

00:25:34.900 - 00:25:42.400 (8 sec)

I know but generally speaking, you're going to win that game. It's the (inaudible ) thing to say but you're going to win that game. It's pretty well over.

Charlie Rose

00:25:42.400 - 00:25:43.800 (1 sec)

At the Atlanta Braves.

Donald Trump

00:25:43.800 - 00:25:54.300 (11 sec)

We've seen some examples but anyway in life, I was 15 and 0. Then I had 1 very bad year. I had a bad year maybe it was my fault because hey, it was a lot of people's fault. It was also the government's fault. It was a lot of people's fault.

Charlie Rose

00:25:54.300 - 00:25:56 (2 sec)

But you have to take some responsibility though.

Donald Trump

00:25:56 - 00:26:09.900 (14 sec)

Absolutely. I have because I'd be a fool if I didn't but I have to tell you a lot of smart people are in real deep trouble right now. I'm not. A lot of people, really smart people, are dead. They dead. They're done. They're buried. They're over. THey're history.

Charlie Rose

00:26:09.900 - 00:26:12.300 (2 sec)

One more time, why are they dead, buried, gone, history and you are alive, well and as they say (inaudible )?

Donald Trump

00:26:12.300 - 00:26:31.400 (19 sec)

Before I explain that I just want to say that you have 15 good years. You have 1 bad year. People judge you by your last thing. You're only as good as your last thing. You're only as good as your last article or what you've lately. That's it. You take a guy like Harry (inaudible ). The man had 50 great years. Then, unfortunately, he married Leona. This was a major mistake.

Charlie Rose

00:26:31.400 - 00:26:32.600 (1 sec)

Donald Trump

00:26:32.600 - 00:26:46.900 (14 sec)

He marries Leona. Poor Harry. I feel so sorry for you. Harry, just literally leave her alone. Find a new woman if you can but I'll tell you what? He marries Leona. Now all of a sudden he has a couple of bad years to put it mildly (inaudible ). We're talking about major. They don't say the score's 50 to 2.

Charlie Rose

00:26:46.900 - 00:26:50.200 (3 sec)

(Inaudible ). Go ahead.

Donald Trump

00:26:50.200 - 00:27:08.800 (19 sec)

They don't say the score's 50 to 2. As far as they're concerned, Harry is this major failure. That's a shame because that's not the way life should work. It should be 50 to 2. That's a pretty good record. I had 15 great, then I had the 1 bad year and 1 1/2 real bad years. I had to fight. It was a struggle. It was a survival. It was surviving at the top. I wrote the book. It was "Surviving at the Top." It wasn't easy. It wasn't pleasant.

Charlie Rose

00:27:08.800 - 00:27:10.400 (2 sec)

Did you ever think you'd lose?

Donald Trump

00:27:10.400 - 00:27:12.100 (2 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:27:12.100 - 00:27:15 (3 sec)

Did you ever lose confidence? Did you ever say --

Donald Trump

00:27:15 - 00:27:16.600 (2 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:27:16.600 - 00:27:18 (1 sec)

-- "I may not get out of this""

Donald Trump

00:27:18 - 00:27:19.500 (2 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:27:19.500 - 00:27:20.900 (1 sec)

Donald Trump

00:27:20.900 - 00:27:40.500 (20 sec)

Not once. The reason I didn't say it is because I had to go back and do it myself. You see, I built what I built myself. I did it by working long hour, working hard and working smart. More importantly than anything else is by using my own brain. There was a point where I was making so much so fast and it was so easy that I almost got bored. It's true. I write about this. I'm writing about this. It's really been an experience.

Charlie Rose

00:27:40.500 - 00:27:50.900 (10 sec)

I should believe you here saying, "In a way this was good because it gave me a chance to test myself. The adversity was good. It put me back and made me leaner and hungry again because everything was at stake. Therefore, I had to pay attention."

Donald Trump

00:27:50.900 - 00:28:16.100 (25 sec)

I think I'll look at it in the future as being good. When it was happening, I had no choice. I just had to do it. I did it myself. Then all of a sudden -- I'll give you an example, Riverside South. I've had Riverside South for 5 years. I've had the plan for 5 years. I went through a succession of executives that were in charge of Riverside South. A year and a half ago, I took it over myself. As you say, I got a 12 to nothing vote. You were told that I sort of did it myself. I did do it myself.

Charlie Rose

00:28:16.100 - 00:28:17.800 (2 sec)

No, I read that you (inaudible ).

Donald Trump

00:28:17.800 - 00:28:33.200 (15 sec)

You can't believe everything you read but I did do it largely by myself with a group of people but I really spearheaded something that's turned out to be I think's going to be a great thing. I really went back to work. I really did things myself. I think that's why I survived. I think maybe, who knows, [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:28:33.200 - 00:28:39.900 (7 sec)

Let me point out a couple of other things at this time. You lost during this period 3 key executives [crosstalk] --

Donald Trump

00:28:39.900 - 00:28:41.900 (2 sec)

Yeah, and friends.

Charlie Rose

00:28:41.900 - 00:28:47 (5 sec)

-- and friends who were running. Then you went through some executives after that and finally put your lawyer in charge down there, right?

Donald Trump

00:28:47 - 00:28:50.600 (4 sec)

Yeah. He's done a great job.

Charlie Rose

00:28:50.600 - 00:29:04.100 (14 sec)

You had a divorce that was you were the -- Fair to say people were laughing at you about this divorce. When we were amused in the tabloids, I was living in New York at the time but we were amused but at the same time some people said, "Enough of this. I'm tired of [crosstalk]."

Donald Trump

00:29:04.100 - 00:29:06.100 (2 sec)

I would have [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:29:06.100 - 00:29:07.800 (2 sec)

Yeah but you were feeding the columns too.

Donald Trump

00:29:07.800 - 00:29:09.800 (2 sec)

I wasn't feeding them.

Charlie Rose

00:29:09.800 - 00:29:13.300 (4 sec)

You had no conversation with all these people?

Donald Trump

00:29:13.300 - 00:29:47.200 (34 sec)

No, it wasn't a feud. It was a frenzy. I have to tell you. I wasn't feeding anybody. They were feeding themselves. They were making up stories. I call up one of the top people in one of the New York tabloids. I say, "Hey, look. This is ridiculous. This story didn't happen. Don't put it in." He said, "I know it didn't happen but, Donald, we're selling papers like crazy." They knew it before the story was written. They put it in anyway. I think for 28 days in a row -- We talk about Woody Allen was a big story. This thing just swamped everything. This was the biggest of the big. It was crazy. It was out of control. I guess it had all the elements of a soap opera.

Charlie Rose

00:29:47.200 - 00:29:59.900 (13 sec)

But did it bring any satisfaction to you that during this adversity, you were able to get out of the marriage at the time? Perhaps you gave up a lot less money than you might have imagined you would do at another time? Now come on. Tell me the truth.

Donald Trump

00:29:59.900 - 00:30:04.600 (5 sec)

There were those people that say that I did this purposely in order to get [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:30:04.600 - 00:30:12 (7 sec)

No but there are those who said that you used that adversity at the time to say, "It may not ever get any better." People were saying, "You better make your deal now." True?

Donald Trump

00:30:12 - 00:30:31.300 (19 sec)

I was really happy to pay Ivanka what I paid her. This is what I was supposed to pay her. This is what I did pay her because if anything happened a year ago where I went down the tubes where I really would have ended up with nothing, she and the children would always have been taken care of. That was very important to me. At the time, don't forget I was being sued for $2 billion at one point.

Charlie Rose

00:30:31.300 - 00:30:33.600 (2 sec)

Donald Trump

00:30:33.600 - 00:30:42.800 (9 sec)

By her. That was going to be a nasty, contentious suit. Frankly, had I not had a glitch, I would probably not be on this program right now. I'd be a divorce court.

Charlie Rose

00:30:42.800 - 00:30:48.400 (6 sec)

If you hadn't what Oh, if you hadn't been down [crosstalk], if you hadn't bottomed out and put some pressure on her and [crosstalk].

Donald Trump

00:30:48.400 - 00:30:57.900 (10 sec)

No, it wasn't a question of pressure. There was a point where she probably thought I wasn't going to make it. There was a point where a lot of people thought that I wasn't going to make it except me. I [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:30:57.900 - 00:31:01.300 (3 sec)

Were you telling her differently, that maybe [crosstalk]?

Donald Trump

00:31:01.300 - 00:31:27.700 (26 sec)

I wasn't telling her anything. All she had to do was read the "New York Times" and the "Wall Street Journal." They were making these dire predictions about me and others but I guess I got more print than anybody else. That's the negative. The good is when you're doing well and they do that. The bad is when you're doing bad, they do it the other way. They did it the other way times 10. What happened is I had not been involved in a glitch, I don't believe that we would be here right now. I would be studying for tomorrow's examination before a trial.

Charlie Rose

00:31:27.700 - 00:31:30.500 (3 sec)

You'd duke it out in a lawsuit.

Donald Trump

00:31:30.500 - 00:31:55.500 (25 sec)

I think Ivana probably would have gone further than she did but it got so bad and the stories began getting so bad that she said, "Boy, I better take what I'm entitled to according to the contract that we had signed." She ended up taking the $10 million plus the this plus the that. It's probably a package of $20 or $25 million. I think she was smart in doing it in the end. I think her lawyers were horrendous. I think she was horribly represented. She could have gotten a lot more money earlier if she had decent lawyers but she had layers who --

Charlie Rose

00:31:55.500 - 00:31:58.700 (3 sec)

Meaning what? She could have gotten a lot more money early?

Donald Trump

00:31:58.700 - 00:32:00.600 (2 sec)

At an earlier stage.

Charlie Rose

00:32:00.600 - 00:32:04.800 (4 sec)

You would have been more amenable to giving her money in a settlement?

Donald Trump

00:32:04.800 - 00:32:30.400 (26 sec)

I offered more money than she ended up getting but Ivana who is somebody that I'll always love is -- She decided in her great wisdom to hire these characters that were just looking for fame and fortune for themselves in my opinion. They did a bad job for her. They really did. My folks did a great job for me. I had a wonderful lawyer who did a great job for me. In the end though I'm saddened by it because I would have preferred the initial deal with Ivana. She was very, very poorly represented in this divorce action.

Charlie Rose

00:32:30.400 - 00:32:43.600 (13 sec)

You must have some sensitivity though for a woman and what she might be going through. You seem all-powerful there. She doesn't know. She hast to lean on the advice that she gets. People are saying, "This guy's got tons of money."

Donald Trump

00:32:43.600 - 00:33:07.600 (24 sec)

She was leaning on the "Wall Street Journal." When the bad stories started coming out, she was believing those stories. She should have believed those stories. I'm not even saying the stories were wrong. I've done things but I'm not saying those stories at the time were wrong. The economy was atrocious. The business was bad. The real estate business was horrendous. The casino business was bad. We're opening up the Taj Mahal in the middle of a war. I'm opening the largest building in the world [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:33:07.600 - 00:33:09.500 (2 sec)

People were not flooding Atlantic City then.

Donald Trump

00:33:09.500 - 00:33:12.700 (3 sec)

No. Everyone's sitting home watching the war.

Charlie Rose

00:33:12.700 - 00:33:16.900 (4 sec)

Also, she's reading about you and another woman. That can't be pleasing.

Donald Trump

00:33:16.900 - 00:33:25 (8 sec)

She's reading. I never left for another woman. This is one of the great misconceptions. I left because I got tired of the balls, the ballroom gowns and all of the nonsense.

Charlie Rose

00:33:25 - 00:33:26.800 (2 sec)

What does that mean?

Donald Trump

00:33:26.800 - 00:33:40 (13 sec)

I'm just one that doesn't necessarily believe -- They call them the "charity events' but the people that have these charity events are probably the least charitable people I've met. They have them for their own vilification. They have them for their own -- Whatever it is, they have them for their own. They want the press. They want the nonsense.

Charlie Rose

00:33:40 - 00:33:44 (4 sec)

Why do we care if it generates a lot of money for charity?

Donald Trump

00:33:44 - 00:34:08.200 (24 sec)

I'm not sure that it does. I'm really not sure that it does. I look at some of them. I look at the expense. I look at the magnificent table settings at the Plaza Hotel which I'm very happy about but at the Plaza Hotel and all the other places, in the end I don't think we make a hell of a lot for charity. Then I look at United Way where the man's paid virtually millions of dollars to run United Way. I look at what happens in charities. I studied charities. There are very few well-run charities.

Charlie Rose

00:34:08.200 - 00:34:11.400 (3 sec)

You got tired of the gowns, the balls and all that stuff.

Donald Trump

00:34:11.400 - 00:34:21.500 (10 sec)

I got tired of the scene. I knew the scene. I knew the people. Some of the people I like in all fairness. Some of the people I don't like. They're a viscous breed.

Charlie Rose

00:34:21.500 - 00:34:30.400 (9 sec)

You know someone listening to that, that hears you say that, is, "That's not not what happened. This was a guy who was on top of the world. He wanted to have his cake and eat it too. He wanted to be out."

Donald Trump

00:34:30.400 - 00:34:32 (2 sec)

No, I wanted out.

Charlie Rose

00:34:32 - 00:34:36.800 (5 sec)

He wanted out because you wanted to date a lot of young, attractive women who viewed him as a giant catch and an interesting man to be with it.

Donald Trump

00:34:36.800 - 00:34:47.200 (10 sec)

You know what? I'm out now. It's great. I have to tell you. I really like. I think it's great. I've never had a better time [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:34:47.200 - 00:34:48.900 (2 sec)

Tell me what's great about it.

Donald Trump

00:34:48.900 - 00:34:51.700 (3 sec)

I just like it, for it is. Maybe I shouldn't.

Charlie Rose

00:34:51.700 - 00:34:53.200 (2 sec)

The freedom, the independence.

Donald Trump

00:34:53.200 - 00:35:03.400 (10 sec)

It's the freedom. I can do what I want. I can be with who I want to be with. I really like it. I would tell you if I didn't. By the way, I think at a certain point I won't like it. I'll get tired of it.

Charlie Rose

00:35:03.400 - 00:35:06.400 (3 sec)

At a certain point you'll say, "I want to settle down with 1 person."

Donald Trump

00:35:06.400 - 00:35:12.800 (6 sec)

At a certain point, I think I'll say that. I think I'll say that very strongly but at this point, I do like it. I had a fabulous wife in many respects.

Charlie Rose

00:35:12.800 - 00:35:14.600 (2 sec)

Donald Trump

00:35:14.600 - 00:35:37.100 (23 sec)

Fantastic children. Great children. I love them. Therefore, that was so worthwhile. I had another friend later who was also fantastic for a fairly long period of time. I just didn't want to settle down. I didn't want to get married. I didn't want to marry Marla. I didn't want to settle down. I'm just not ready for it. It's just not me, at least not right now.

Charlie Rose

00:35:37.100 - 00:35:41 (4 sec)

Is that what killed that relationship you think?

Donald Trump

00:35:41 - 00:36:07.400 (26 sec)

A lot of things perhaps killed it but I would say that probably that's the predominant thing. I was very ancy. I didn't want to settle. Of course, don't forget I'm busy. I'm doing a lot of different things. I love doing them. I'm so happy now. I enjoy getting up and going out to the wars. The wars are now becoming battles. It's just worked out well but you can't devote lots of time to a relationship when you're going through this.

Charlie Rose

00:36:07.400 - 00:36:20.200 (13 sec)

There is also said in this piece by (inaudible ) that you love the limelight and that you seek in the public and the public's adulation something, that the mirror of that is somehow important, confirming. True?

Donald Trump

00:36:20.200 - 00:36:28.500 (8 sec)

I don't think so. I think that I loved it at one point. I think I've gotten used to it. I think I do well in it.

Charlie Rose

00:36:28.500 - 00:36:30.300 (2 sec)

Did you [crosstalk]?

Donald Trump

00:36:30.300 - 00:36:44 (14 sec)

See, I look at it differently. It's great for my business. The fact is that, as you know, my casinos are up more than any casinos in the United States. We're at Number 1, 2 and 3 in increases in Atlantic City, Number 1, 2 and 3 every month.

Charlie Rose

00:36:44 - 00:36:55.600 (12 sec)

But are they, and I want to hammer at this question, at the same time the most profitable? It's one thing to be up in revenue. You're saying they're up in revenue. You're not necessary saying that they are the most profitable.

Donald Trump

00:36:55.600 - 00:37:01.300 (6 sec)

The Taj Mahal has the largest gross operating profit of any casino in Atlantic City by far, by far. It's not even close.

Charlie Rose

00:37:01.300 - 00:37:05.100 (4 sec)

When you're backing expenses, it has the gross operating [crosstalk].

Donald Trump

00:37:05.100 - 00:37:16.300 (11 sec)

It also has the biggest gross. It's got the biggest gross but it's got the largest gross operating profit in Atlantic City but what's happening is a lot of people -- Now I will say this. When people thought I was going down, they started deserting me. You know this is not the way it should be.

Charlie Rose

00:37:16.300 - 00:37:17.900 (2 sec)

Tell me who deserted you.

Donald Trump

00:37:17.900 - 00:37:44.500 (27 sec)

No, no, no. I'm talking about customers. I'm not talking about local friends, this, that. When the customers, the Taj Mahal customer, when the customers, the casino customers, even the condominium buyer customers, when they thought I was going down for the count, they really did desert me. I have to say. Now that they see I'm doing well again, now that they see I'm back, now that they see all these crazy magazine covers, I will tell you one of the reasons that my casinos are up so much more is that they're all back with me.

Charlie Rose

00:37:44.500 - 00:37:51.300 (7 sec)

Are you saying, therefore, it makes sense for you to promote this notion? Look at this picture here. You like this?

Donald Trump

00:37:51.300 - 00:37:52.900 (2 sec)

Isn't he a handsome guy?

Charlie Rose

00:37:52.900 - 00:37:54.500 (2 sec)

You like this, don't you?

Donald Trump

00:37:54.500 - 00:37:56.100 (2 sec)

No, I don't like it.

Charlie Rose

00:37:56.100 - 00:38:02 (6 sec)

But is it good for you to promote that because it says, "Donald is back," and all of this stuff about scrambles off the canvas in a sense is good for business so --

Donald Trump

00:38:02 - 00:38:03.400 (1 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:38:03.400 - 00:38:07.700 (4 sec)

-- therefore you're promoting image? [crosstalk]. You want people to believe that you're back.

Donald Trump

00:38:07.700 - 00:38:22.400 (15 sec)

As an example, it's late in the evening right now. It's not that late. You're a fantastic guy. We did this down in New Orleans but in New Orleans it was 2:00PM. It was really much more pleasant. [crosstalk] late in the evening. Here we are doing an interview.

Charlie Rose

00:38:22.400 - 00:38:24 (2 sec)

Heck of an interview it is.

Donald Trump

00:38:24 - 00:38:26.700 (3 sec)

I hope we're going to have a good time. I hope you get good ratings too.

Charlie Rose

00:38:26.700 - 00:38:28.200 (2 sec)

Donald Trump

00:38:28.200 - 00:38:29.900 (2 sec)

Anything for you.

Charlie Rose

00:38:29.900 - 00:38:31.300 (1 sec)

Donald Trump

00:38:31.300 - 00:38:42.500 (11 sec)

-- but I'll tell you what. It happens to be -- [crosstalk]. That's right. It happens to be great for business. The fact that it's coming back. Now it would be nice to be the other way. If you have problems, it would make it [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:38:42.500 - 00:38:45 (3 sec)

All right but apart from all that, come on. Ego.

Donald Trump

00:38:45 - 00:38:47.800 (3 sec)

What? I have an ego.

Charlie Rose

00:38:47.800 - 00:38:49 (1 sec)

Of course you do.

Donald Trump

00:38:49 - 00:38:51.400 (2 sec)

I've never met a successful person without an ego.

Charlie Rose

00:38:51.400 - 00:38:53.800 (2 sec)

Nor have I. Mother Theresa has an ego.

Donald Trump

00:38:53.800 - 00:38:56.600 (3 sec)

Absolutely. [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:38:56.600 - 00:39:12.700 (16 sec)

I have never had the pleasure but nevertheless, part of it you love the limelight. You love beyond the business and what it does and the whole sense of the Trump image, you like it. You like the fact that there's security guys coming ahead of you and sweeping behind you. There's this adulation. Women want to be with you. Wherever you go, there are flash bulbs and all of this kind of thing. You like it.

Donald Trump

00:39:12.700 - 00:39:15.600 (3 sec)

I don't know. I don't mind it.

Charlie Rose

00:39:15.600 - 00:39:16.900 (1 sec)

Don't mind it or relish it?

Donald Trump

00:39:16.900 - 00:39:24 (7 sec)

I'll tell you what. I used to like it more. I still like it. I probably would miss it if it weren't here. I probably [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:39:24 - 00:39:26.700 (3 sec)

Because you've grown accustomed to it as part of your --

Donald Trump

00:39:26.700 - 00:39:45.700 (19 sec)

Maybe. It's been wild but I also think it's great for business. It is great for the casino business. It's great for the condominium business. It's great. Hey, they just came out with a report, the (inaudible ) Report. The Trump Apartments in New York sell for more on a square foot basis which is really the one thing than any apartments in New York by far. It's not even close. A lot of that is all of this nonsense.

Charlie Rose

00:39:45.700 - 00:39:55 (9 sec)

Let me talk about people you ought to say sorry to, if there might be. One, and I raise this person is, that guy in Philadelphia who they say you got fired. Do you remember the guy who did the stock (inaudible ) analysis?

Donald Trump

00:39:55 - 00:40:04.200 (9 sec)

I don't think so. He did great. He came out. He did well. Now he's my biggest champion. He's the one that --

Charlie Rose

00:40:04.200 - 00:40:07.100 (3 sec)

Yeah but you got him fired. You've got to look back --

Donald Trump

00:40:07.100 - 00:40:08.500 (1 sec)

I can't help that he's been fired.

Charlie Rose

00:40:08.500 - 00:40:11.300 (3 sec)

Oh come on. Did they fire him because of a call from you?

Donald Trump

00:40:11.300 - 00:40:13.800 (3 sec)

I have no idea. Really, I have no idea.

Charlie Rose

00:40:13.800 - 00:40:15 (1 sec)

Okay but don't you any egrets for that?

Donald Trump

00:40:15 - 00:40:16.200 (1 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:40:16.200 - 00:40:19.800 (4 sec)

But 1 man may have lost a job because you leaned on --

Donald Trump

00:40:19.800 - 00:40:28.800 (9 sec)

Because he's a tough guy. He's a savvy guy. He's come out great. He's a stock analyst. He's now my biggest champion. He's saying it's the greatest comeback, in fact he used the word brilliant. I hate to tell you this.

Charlie Rose

00:40:28.800 - 00:40:30 (1 sec)

What's his name?

Donald Trump

00:40:30 - 00:40:31.400 (1 sec)

His name is Marvin (inaudible ).

Charlie Rose

00:40:31.400 - 00:40:34.400 (3 sec)

That's right. He did say.

Donald Trump

00:40:34.400 - 00:40:39.100 (5 sec)

He was a great critic of me. Now he's saying that this was one of the most brilliant things (inaudible ).

Charlie Rose

00:40:39.100 - 00:40:40.800 (2 sec)

You did him a favor by getting him fired?

Donald Trump

00:40:40.800 - 00:40:43.800 (3 sec)

I think in the long run he's probably doing better now than [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:40:43.800 - 00:40:48.200 (4 sec)

Yeah, you did him a favor. That's it.

Donald Trump

00:40:48.200 - 00:40:52.400 (4 sec)

Indirectly I did him -- I wasn't looking to do him a favor but I think indirectly --

Charlie Rose

00:40:52.400 - 00:40:54.200 (2 sec)

But don't you regret that?

Donald Trump

00:40:54.200 - 00:40:55.800 (2 sec)

No, I don't regret it.

Charlie Rose

00:40:55.800 - 00:40:57.300 (2 sec)

Didn't this guy lose his job?

Donald Trump

00:40:57.300 - 00:41:00.300 (3 sec)

No because that's life. You can't look back. I don't like to look back.

Charlie Rose

00:41:00.300 - 00:41:03.300 (3 sec)

No regrets then? There's no one that you'd say [crosstalk].

Donald Trump

00:41:03.300 - 00:41:07.900 (5 sec)

No regrets? If I had it to do again, would I have done things differently? Yes.

Charlie Rose

00:41:07.900 - 00:41:09.300 (1 sec)

What would you have done differently?

Donald Trump

00:41:09.300 - 00:41:28 (19 sec)

I probably instead of stopping with the sale of the Saint Maritz where I sold and I made a lot of money, I probably would have sold some other things. I think I would have treated people differently. I think that some of the people that were most loyal to me were people that I didn't think would be. Some of the people that were least loyal to me are people that I think I would have treated them differently. I think I would have treated different groups differently. I would have wiped the floor with the guys that weren't loyal which I will now do which is great. I love getting even with people but I will --

Charlie Rose

00:41:28 - 00:41:29.200 (1 sec)

Slow up. You love getting even.

Donald Trump

00:41:29.200 - 00:41:32.600 (3 sec)

Oh absolutely. You don't believe in the (inaudible )? Yeah you do.

Charlie Rose

00:41:32.600 - 00:41:34.200 (2 sec)

Donald Trump

00:41:34.200 - 00:41:37.200 (3 sec)

I know you well enough. I think you do but anyway --

Charlie Rose

00:41:37.200 - 00:41:39.900 (3 sec)

But tell me. You're going to get even with some people because --

Donald Trump

00:41:39.900 - 00:41:46.600 (7 sec)

If given the opportunity. If given the opportunity, I will get even with some people that were disloyal to me. I had a group of people that were disloyal.

Charlie Rose

00:41:46.600 - 00:41:48.900 (2 sec)

But how do you define disloyalty?

Donald Trump

00:41:48.900 - 00:41:50.600 (2 sec)

They didn't come to my aid.

Charlie Rose

00:41:50.600 - 00:41:54 (3 sec)

What did they do? Did they turn their back on you?

Donald Trump

00:41:54 - 00:42:01.500 (8 sec)

No but they didn't do small things that would have helped. They didn't do large things that would have helped.

Charlie Rose

00:42:01.500 - 00:42:03.500 (2 sec)

Give me one example.

Donald Trump

00:42:03.500 - 00:42:16.800 (13 sec)

I had one man who frankly was on the board of a company that I was selling. It was a tremendous sale for me. It was a great sale. It would have been a very helpful sale. It ended up going (inaudible ) but one of the things is that I had to --

Charlie Rose

00:42:16.800 - 00:42:18.400 (2 sec)

Is this the Shuttle?

Donald Trump

00:42:18.400 - 00:43:04.600 (46 sec)

No, this was a different company. It doesn't matter which company. It was a great thing for me but one of the things is I had to clear the board. Now I only put him on that board because of the fact I thought I was doing him a favor. He got some money by being a board member, et cetera. He contributed nothing. I had 5 board members. When it came time to removing the slate and getting all my people, everyone said, "I'm leaving. Steve (inaudible )," everyone left except this one particular person said, "I don't want to leave." He told my people, "I don't want to leave. When I heard about it, I went nuts. I blasted him. All of a sudden, he left. I consider that a great act of disloyalty. I put him on that board. Now he did leave. This is a little like Andrew. Andrew ended up in favor of Riverside South but all I had done, I had never asked him for anything. This was a great job. This was a job that he should have been in favor. He had to do a poll in order to find out whether or not he was going to support.

Charlie Rose

00:43:04.600 - 00:43:07.800 (3 sec)

Yeah but how can you get even with Andy Stein? This guy's --

Donald Trump

00:43:07.800 - 00:43:12.700 (5 sec)

It's not a question of getting even. I can certainly be disappointed in certain people. I was very disappointed.

Charlie Rose

00:43:12.700 - 00:43:15.800 (3 sec)

Yeah but you've already said, "An eye for an eye." If he hits you, you're going to hit him back.

Donald Trump

00:43:15.800 - 00:43:17.400 (2 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:43:17.400 - 00:43:19.200 (2 sec)

How much would you hit him back?

Donald Trump

00:43:19.200 - 00:43:22.800 (4 sec)

We'll see. Hey, time will tell I guess, right?

Charlie Rose

00:43:22.800 - 00:43:24.700 (2 sec)

Are you looking for the opportunity?

Donald Trump

00:43:24.700 - 00:43:34.700 (10 sec)

No, I'm not looking. I'm just really so disappointed in him. I'm disappointed in other people. I was disappointed in this one man that didn't want to get off the (inaudible ). He got off.

Charlie Rose

00:43:34.700 - 00:43:36.400 (2 sec)

Okay but he got off.

Donald Trump

00:43:36.400 - 00:43:39.500 (3 sec)

Not only did he got off, he got off after being hit over the head with a canon.

Charlie Rose

00:43:39.500 - 00:43:41.400 (2 sec)

What was the canon?

Donald Trump

00:43:41.400 - 00:43:43.400 (2 sec)

The canon was me.

Charlie Rose

00:43:43.400 - 00:43:46.800 (3 sec)

What was the threat though? Did you blast him in the paper and that was enough --

Donald Trump

00:43:46.800 - 00:43:48.200 (1 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:43:48.200 - 00:43:49.600 (1 sec)

-- or did you say --

Donald Trump

00:43:49.600 - 00:43:57.100 (8 sec)

No. The threat was just a strong threat. He would have gone through a lot of hell if he didn't get off. Then he gets off. He acts like he does me a favor. He got off maybe [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:43:57.100 - 00:44:00.100 (3 sec)

You owe me, Donald, because I'm getting off the board.

Donald Trump

00:44:00.100 - 00:44:25.400 (25 sec)

Yeah. It was like one of the great jokes of the century but it ended up that he got off. The deal went through but that doesn't mean I have to love this particular guy. It doesn't mean I have to love him. I want somebody that's loyal from the beginning, not somebody that's loyal because they're afraid or because they're this or because they're that. I've had a lot of instances like that. Again, I think the new book -- I don't know why I'm promoting a book that's not going to come out for 3 or 4 months. I don't want to waste a lot of time [crosstalk] but I think that the most interesting aspect -- That's right. We'll do it when you go national.

Charlie Rose

00:44:25.400 - 00:44:27.300 (2 sec)

Donald Trump

00:44:27.300 - 00:44:31.200 (4 sec)

We'll do that [crosstalk]. Forget the local stuff.

Charlie Rose

00:44:31.200 - 00:44:35.400 (4 sec)

No, the local stuff is important. Without the local stuff, there's no national stuff.

Donald Trump

00:44:35.400 - 00:44:38.700 (3 sec)

That's right. You don't do the second step --

Charlie Rose

00:44:38.700 - 00:44:40.300 (2 sec)

Donald Trump

00:44:40.300 - 00:44:43.500 (3 sec)

-- but I think the most interesting aspect of that book is the loyalty area, the loyalty chapters.

Charlie Rose

00:44:43.500 - 00:44:49 (6 sec)

You mention loyalty in terms of your own relationship with Roy Cone. Do you feel like you stuck by Roy Cone --

Donald Trump

00:44:49 - 00:44:50.500 (2 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:44:50.500 - 00:44:52 (2 sec)

-- and you showed your stripes by doing that?

Donald Trump

00:44:52 - 00:45:00.400 (8 sec)

I don't think I showed my stripes. You see, I'm so loyal to people. Maybe I'm loyal to a fault but I'm so loyal to people that when somebody is slightly disloyal to me, I look upon it as a great act of horror.

Charlie Rose

00:45:00.400 - 00:45:01.900 (2 sec)

Who are you going to support for mayor?

Donald Trump

00:45:01.900 - 00:45:34.500 (33 sec)

I think David Dinkens I have to tell you has done a real good comeback. You talk about comebacks? David Dinkens has done one hell of a comeback in the last 6 months. You saw what happened in Los Angeles. You saw what happened. People really like the man. I've been with him. I've watched him. He has really become a very popular guy. I think he's going to be very hard to beat in a lot of ways. Now I have to tell you that a year and a half ago nobody wanted to run against George Bush. It took a man from Arkansas who was the only one, virtually one of the few people that wanted to run because George Bush was unbeatable. There was no way you could bet this guy. It turns out he just ran out of gas.

Charlie Rose

00:45:34.500 - 00:45:42.200 (8 sec)

It looked like David Dinkens couldn't possibly win re-election a year ago. Then you had [crosstalk] and other things. Now he's in a much better position [crosstalk]?

Donald Trump

00:45:42.200 - 00:45:44.200 (2 sec)

He's done a great comeback.

Charlie Rose

00:45:44.200 - 00:45:46.200 (2 sec)

Do you support him over Juliani?

Donald Trump

00:45:46.200 - 00:45:57 (11 sec)

I'm not a (inaudible ) supporter. I don't think it's even relevant. I just think that Dinkens has really done a great job in terms of coming back. I also think he's a great human being. I think he's a very [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:45:57 - 00:45:58.800 (2 sec)

Did he help you on the Planning Commission?

Donald Trump

00:45:58.800 - 00:46:09.300 (11 sec)

He helped me but he was tough. He was strong. He was very committed to our anthem. He was very much for the people in that sense but one, he gave me his word that he would now support the job. He lived up to that word.

Charlie Rose

00:46:09.300 - 00:46:14 (5 sec)

There was also a guy on the political scene this year named Ross Perot, a billionaire. Were you once a billionaire?

Donald Trump

00:46:14 - 00:46:17.800 (4 sec)

I don't know. I was projected as being a billionaire [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:46:17.800 - 00:46:24.800 (7 sec)

I know you were but you never can tell [crosstalk] because I saw there at least $900 million but did you actually have a net worth of [crosstalk]? What did you have yourself up to?

Donald Trump

00:46:24.800 - 00:46:34.600 (10 sec)

I don't know. I had myself up to maybe what I have right now. Nobody knows what I'm worth. What's the Taj Mahal worth? What's the Westside worth? I have no idea what I'm worth.

Charlie Rose

00:46:34.600 - 00:46:44.900 (10 sec)

What was it you used to say about the Plaza? You said,"This is a trophy. Therefore, it's a different place if it's a trophy. It's vast and unique. People will pay a premium for the best and unique."

Donald Trump

00:46:44.900 - 00:46:46.600 (2 sec)

But people don't buy trophies so much anymore.

Charlie Rose

00:46:46.600 - 00:46:51 (4 sec)

That's true. [crosstalk]. Did you pay too much for that trophy? Probably?

Donald Trump

00:46:51 - 00:46:58.800 (8 sec)

No. I'll tell you what. When I bought the Plaza I was offered a huge profit the year after. Brilliantly, I decided not to take that profit.

Charlie Rose

00:46:58.800 - 00:47:02.300 (4 sec)

Who sold it to you? Was it the (inaudible )?

Donald Trump

00:47:02.300 - 00:47:04.100 (2 sec)

No, it was a consortium of people.

Charlie Rose

00:47:04.100 - 00:47:06 (2 sec)

But the (inaudible ) were involved.

Donald Trump

00:47:06 - 00:47:22.600 (17 sec)

I have to tell you truth. I'm very happy with my purchase of the Plaza Hotel. I think it's working out fantastically. I think it's going to worth out. Adversity's a really funny thing. When you have adversity, it's like in golf. It's like in sports. It's a question of how many shots have you had not so many good shots but how many bad shots?

Charlie Rose

00:47:22.600 - 00:47:24.600 (2 sec)

In other words, minimize your bad shots.

Donald Trump

00:47:24.600 - 00:47:38 (13 sec)

It's not a question of getting because everybody's going to get in trouble. It's a question of how you get out of trouble. I think the Plaza Hotel is going to turn out to be a great deal for me. It's already turning out to be a great deal for me. I think it's going to be good.

Charlie Rose

00:47:38 - 00:47:46.100 (8 sec)

But golf, that sporting metaphor may be correct because in golf if you were playing and you've got to go over the water to reach the green, sometimes you don't make it over the water.

Donald Trump

00:47:46.100 - 00:47:48.500 (2 sec)

Sometimes you don't but I'm not --

Charlie Rose

00:47:48.500 - 00:47:50.700 (2 sec)

Then it can put you into bogey land.

Donald Trump

00:47:50.700 - 00:47:54.300 (4 sec)

-- necessarily [crosstalk] but that's not where I am although I could have been.

Charlie Rose

00:47:54.300 - 00:48:00.700 (6 sec)

You're not in bogey land but are you back to par? You're not even at par. You're at least at bogey.

Donald Trump

00:48:00.700 - 00:48:06.900 (6 sec)

No, I think - Again, I attended this. I make this prediction. I think in 6 months I'll be stronger than I was 3 or 4 years ago, whatever my [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:48:06.900 - 00:48:08.400 (2 sec)

That's a birdie, isn't it?

Donald Trump

00:48:08.400 - 00:48:23.200 (15 sec)

I believe. What I did is I restructured thing in the early '90s in the bad times. Now it's turning out to be very good. I believe I'll be stronger than I was 2 years ago but who knows. We'll see what happens. Let's see what happens with the economy. Let's see what happens with [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:48:23.200 - 00:48:31.800 (9 sec)

Ross Perot had $3 billion. He was willing to spend it and got something -- I haven't seen in the last tally, maybe 17, 18% of the vote, 19% of the vote. There was a time in which you wanted to tease Americans you might even want to run for President.

Donald Trump

00:48:31.800 - 00:48:34.600 (3 sec)

People said that. I never did but people said that.

Charlie Rose

00:48:34.600 - 00:48:37.300 (3 sec)

You didn't go to New Hampshire to test the water?

Donald Trump

00:48:37.300 - 00:48:40 (3 sec)

You know what? I went to --

Charlie Rose

00:48:40 - 00:48:43.500 (4 sec)

[crosstalk] influence of Roger Stone say, "This is an interesting idea. Let's go up and see what we can do."

Donald Trump

00:48:43.500 - 00:48:48.900 (5 sec)

I really went to New Hampshire because they wanted me to go to New Hampshire. They wanted me to [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:48:48.900 - 00:48:52.200 (3 sec)

But you knew that your appearance there would generate the talk.

Donald Trump

00:48:52.200 - 00:48:53.800 (2 sec)

It certainly did generate talk.

Charlie Rose

00:48:53.800 - 00:48:57.300 (4 sec)

But you knew that your appearance would generate the talk.

Donald Trump

00:48:57.300 - 00:49:19.100 (22 sec)

No, I didn't do it for that reason. Charlie, I didn't do it for that reason. I had no idea how much talk would be generated. I had no intention of running for President. I wouldn't have an intention of running for President. I will say this. Ross Perot, he made some monumental mistakes. Had he not dropped out of the election, had he not made the gaps about the watchdogs and the guard dogs and everybody in the [crosstalk]. If he didn't have 3 or 4 bad days, and they were real bad days, he could have conceivably won this crazy election.

Charlie Rose

00:49:19.100 - 00:49:24 (5 sec)

You'll get some political people who are smarter than you and I both about politics who will say the same thing.

Donald Trump

00:49:24 - 00:49:25.800 (2 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:49:25.800 - 00:49:28.700 (3 sec)

-- that he could have made it a very competitive race --

Donald Trump

00:49:28.700 - 00:49:30.200 (2 sec)

He was up by 42 points at one time.

Charlie Rose

00:49:30.200 - 00:49:44.600 (14 sec)

-- and possibly won but at the same time whatever it is that made him generate $2 billion which enabled him to do as well as he did in part, in part -- He was very effective in the debates. That had nothing to do with how much money he had. At the same time, maybe you have to take the good with the bad. Part of the personnel that helped him make $2 billion also made him the way he is about the paranoia about ..

Donald Trump

00:49:44.600 - 00:49:48.200 (4 sec)

The paranoia maybe created some of the money but it's not necessarily [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:49:48.200 - 00:49:50.300 (2 sec)

-- or the drive that creates both.

Donald Trump

00:49:50.300 - 00:50:04.600 (14 sec)

One of the problems with politics and politicians is that you really can't have done very much wrong. That means you can't have done very much because if you're doing a lot -- Hey, I do a lot of things. Most of them turn out good but some of them have to turn out bad. They'll hit you with a little bad. It makes it a little bit more difficult.

Charlie Rose

00:50:04.600 - 00:50:13.500 (9 sec)

Franklin Roosevelt I think once said -- [crosstalk] was here the other night. I'm not sure he said this but I think FDR once said, "I'm proud of all my enemies I've earned." What enemies are you proud of?

Donald Trump

00:50:13.500 - 00:51:00 (47 sec)

I'm proud of having a guy like Ed Koch as an enemy because I think he's a major loser. He did a lousy job as Mayor. He's a promoter. He's very much of a promoter. He did not do a good job as a Mayor. He got very upset because after 8 years of trying to build the (inaudible ) Skating Rink, I was able to do it in 4 months for about 1/10th the money that they spent. Instead of thanking me, he took great umbrage to the fact that I was able to do this. I just wanted to have my kids go ice skating in Central Park. I got tired of watching these people sitting on their, I'm not allowed to say asses on this program so, of course, I won't say it, but I got tired of watching these people just sitting down, not working, not doing it right and having no plan and no leadership. Instead of thanking me and saying, "Donald, that was a great job," he went around saying, "I think we could have done it if we this or we that." I think he was just [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:51:00 - 00:51:06.200 (6 sec)

Ed Koch. Who else? What other enemies are you proud of?

Donald Trump

00:51:06.200 - 00:51:11.700 (6 sec)

I'm not proud of enemies. I'm the kind of guy that wants great friends and great enemies but I'm not proud of this.

Charlie Rose

00:51:11.700 - 00:51:14.800 (3 sec)

Is your father still the Seminole influence in your life?

Donald Trump

00:51:14.800 - 00:51:21.400 (7 sec)

I have a great father. I have a wonderful father. He's somebody I love very much. I'd say my mother and father made me [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:51:21.400 - 00:51:23.400 (2 sec)

Donald Trump

00:51:23.400 - 00:51:25.300 (2 sec)

Yeah, together because I have [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:51:25.300 - 00:51:27 (2 sec)

In what way did they influence you differently?

Donald Trump

00:51:27 - 00:51:51.200 (24 sec)

They were different people. My father's a very business-oriented guy but a very good man. If somebody came up to my father on the street and said I need $100, I need $200, my father is the softest touch when it comes to people that are really in trouble. He's really a very great humanitarian in that sense but he's a strong man. People think of him as being cold but he's not cold but my mother is openly warm. She's just a wonderful woman.

Charlie Rose

00:51:51.200 - 00:51:53 (2 sec)

Except when it comes to Mike Tyson.

Donald Trump

00:51:53 - 00:52:00.500 (8 sec)

Except when it came to Mike Tyson. It took 40 years. Finally, she came out. She said something but she's a fabulous woman.

Charlie Rose

00:52:00.500 - 00:52:04.900 (4 sec)

She made you like yourself when you were growing up. Her love reinforced your sense of self.

Donald Trump

00:52:04.900 - 00:52:06.300 (1 sec)

She really did.

Charlie Rose

00:52:06.300 - 00:52:15.600 (9 sec)

Greenberg again in this "New York" magazine article said about you, he said, "If Donald give you his word, it's good as gold. However -- "

Donald Trump

00:52:15.600 - 00:52:17.700 (2 sec)

He said that sometimes I had a bad memory.

Charlie Rose

00:52:17.700 - 00:52:19.600 (2 sec)

That leaves you wide open to the fact that --

Donald Trump

00:52:19.600 - 00:52:23.700 (4 sec)

I have a photographic memory. That's the problem I have.

Charlie Rose

00:52:23.700 - 00:52:29.200 (6 sec)

Exactly. It raises this question, "Can you trust what Donald really says because his memory may be short?"

Donald Trump

00:52:29.200 - 00:52:40.500 (11 sec)

No, I think he meant that jokingly. He's a great friend. He's a great gentleman. I think but perhaps he's had some bad experiences. I really don't know.

Charlie Rose

00:52:40.500 - 00:52:44.600 (4 sec)

What brings you the greatest satisfaction now? Is it conquering adversity or is it something else?

Donald Trump

00:52:44.600 - 00:52:48.700 (4 sec)

I used to think just continued success but I got bored by it.

Charlie Rose

00:52:48.700 - 00:52:50.600 (2 sec)

Enough is enough.

Donald Trump

00:52:50.600 - 00:52:58.500 (8 sec)

Enough. Then I really think that right now I'm just really proud with the way I've handled things. I really think that I've handled things well from a business standpoint.

Charlie Rose

00:52:58.500 - 00:53:12.300 (14 sec)

Somebody who steps forward and says, "This is just Donald's hype. He's a giant hype. He hasn't come back. Times have turned a little bit around. He sold up some assets but it's not the great comeback that he believe sit is." You say?

Donald Trump

00:53:12.300 - 00:53:33.600 (21 sec)

All they have to do is look at the numbers. When you look at the numbers in the casino journals and you look at the numbers, it's been a tremendous comeback. I'm not saying I'm as far back as I will be in 6 months. I'm back. I'm not in any trouble. I'm doing well. I'm making money. Money is a score card for me. Money is not as important as people would think it would be to a guy like me but it is a score card. I've really [crosstalk].

Charlie Rose

00:53:33.600 - 00:53:37.700 (4 sec)

What is the most important thing to a guy like you?

Donald Trump

00:53:37.700 - 00:54:03.700 (26 sec)

I think the way I've survived, the quality in which I've lived under the survival mode, the image that I've portrayed during this survival period. People haven't seen me go into a corner and put my thumb in my mouth and say, "I give up." This kid doesn't give up. Some people did give up. I have to tell you, Charlie. You're not going to be doing interviews with them. Some people did give up. Many people gave up. Many tough, smart (inaudible ) gave up. They just gave up. They said, "I can't do it any more." I think the way in which I survived was very important to me.

Charlie Rose

00:54:03.700 - 00:54:08.200 (5 sec)

Part of the comeback, soon to be out -- What? You're going to be out in the beginning of [crosstalk]?

Donald Trump

00:54:08.200 - 00:54:09.600 (1 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:54:09.600 - 00:54:10.900 (1 sec)

You're writing this alone?

Donald Trump

00:54:10.900 - 00:54:24.500 (14 sec)

I'm doing this one alone because I really want to get my flavor. I've had 2 wonderful writers. My other books were both Number 1 best-sellers. I'm doing this alone. I want to get my own flavor. It's really become somewhat of a passion because I think people are going to learn a lot from it.

Charlie Rose

00:54:24.500 - 00:54:25.800 (1 sec)

Good to have you.

Donald Trump

00:54:25.800 - 00:54:27.400 (2 sec)

I had a good time.

Charlie Rose

00:54:27.400 - 00:54:29 (2 sec)

Thanks very much.

Donald Trump

00:54:29 - 00:54:30.700 (2 sec)

Charlie Rose

00:54:30.700 - 00:55:36 (65 sec)

Donald Trump is back. Thank you for joining us tonight. Monday we'll talk with World Series hero Dave (inaudible ). Trump would like to hear that. Also, a lot of other people will be here. We're taking next week an hour with Charlie Kuralt, one of my friends from North Carolina. A lot more interesting things coming up.