Donald, good to have you with us. Well, thank you, Steve. And congratulations, again, for being on the Billionaires List. Oh, good, good. We always underestimate you, but -- You do, but that's okay. That's all right. And those who deal with you underestimate you and live to regret it. It's always good to be underestimated. I have to ask you, one, when are you going to make a decision on running for president? And two, if you do it, is it going to be as a Republican or an Independent? Well, I am a Republican, and I would run as a Republican. And I have a lot of confidence in the Republican Party. I don't have a lot of confidence in the president. I think what's happening to this country is unbelievably bad. We're no longer a respected country. You go throughout the world -- and I deal with many of the same people that you deal with -- and they can't believe what they're getting away with, in terms of other countries. Whether it's China, or the OPEC nations, or whatever. So, I would run as a Republican, if I decide to do that. Do you have a deadline in mind, when you say, go/no go? I do. It'll be June. I'm doing Celebrity Apprentice. I'm not allowed to announce anything during that period -- that starts on Sunday night, at 9, for two hours. Right, right. Congratulations, again. And it's been a big hit. Well, thank you. It's been a big hit, you've been watching it go and just keep going. This is season 11. So I can't do anything during that time, and I'll be announcing sometime after the season of Celebrity Apprentice. Terrific. The other day, the head of 3M said that President Obama is anti-business. Do you get the same feeling that he does? Well, I don't know that he's anti-business, or he just really doesn't know exactly what to do. And I'm afraid it probably is the second thing. I don't see him, necessarily, as anti-business. I think that he is not sophisticated in the ways of business. He hasn't dealt with the people that you've dealt with and that I've dealt with. I deal with China, as an example, a lot. It is never easy. And I've made some very big deals with the Chinese. I've come out on top, I've come out in great shape. I sell apartments to Chinese people. I get along great with them. It's not like I'm anti-China. I just think it's ridiculous that we allow them to do what they're doing to this country, with the manipulation of the currency, that you write about and understand, and all of the other things that they do. And frankly, if I were them, and if I could get away with it -- I take my hat off to them, frankly. They do get away with it. And I hire companies all the time, and it's so hard for our companies to compete against Chinese countries, companies. I mean, these companies have such an advantage, whether it's glass for a curtain roll, or whether it's -- and you used the term, because you know it's happened -- sheetrock. I mean, they used to give us sheetrock, just give it. And everybody that was unfortunate enough to use Chinese sheetrock had problems. I mean, problems like where people were dying from it. The good news, Steve, is our product is much better. But with the manipulation of their currency, it's very, very, very hard for our companies to compete. First, in China itself, put the currency aside, do you find there are local barriers, trade barriers, other barriers that make it much more difficult to do business there than in other parts of the world? Well, I find that I have many friends. And I'm a free trade person. Otherwise, you wouldn't even be talking to me right now. So, I believe in free trade, totally. I'd love to have everybody have free trade, as long as it's fair. You know, we lose, essentially, if we look at profit and loss, $300 billion a year versus China. We don't need so much free trade for that, frankly. That's a company. If that were a company, you'd say, "Let's get rid of that company, because that's not good." But I believe in fair trade, and I will tell you, I have many, many friends heading up corporations, and people that do just business in China, they say it's virtually impossible. It's very, very hard to come into China. And yet, we welcome them with open arms. If you look at environmental regulations, where we're muzzling all of our factories for the green movement; we have to spend millions and millions and millions of dollars per factory so that we don't pollute the air, which is wonderful. But do you really believe that China does that? Have you ever seen their factories? I mean, forget it. They've never even heard of it. But they talk a good game. They talk great. And it's not only China, it's so many others. When you look at South Korea, what's happened over there, they signed a trade agreement that I've studied, and it's horrible for this country. I can't believe we can't make a much better agreement. And even that, they didn't want to sign that agreement until about two months ago, bombs started getting lobbed in by North Korea. All of a sudden, they said, "Oh, we want to sign the agreement, we want to sign the agreement." It's a one sided agreement, totally in favor of South Korea. So, we send the George Washington aircraft carrier over to protect them, along with 17 destroyers, and all of a sudden, they decide to sign the agreement. They weren't going to sign it. They embarrassed the president, because after it was negotiated, they said, "We're not going to," because as good as it was, it wasn't good enough. So, we send our ships over to protect them, and frankly, that's the reason. Watch Steve Forbes' interview with Donald Trump. So you want to send them the bill? Well, yeah. Why aren't they paying us? They make hundreds of billions of dollars from us, with their LG televisions, that I buy by the thousands. Because frankly, you can't buy any American manufacturer, practically. So, I buy them by the thousands for hotel rooms and places that I have. And I'm saying -- and it's a wonderful product, everything's great. But they make a fortune on us. I'm saying, why aren't they -- when you turn on that ignition for that little aircraft carrier, that probably costs $1 million, okay? So, we're sending these ships over to North Korea.I mean, why aren't they paying for this? Why don't they pay for their protection? You look at Saudi Arabia, where we have troops in Saudi Arabia, and they pay us nothing. The whole thing is amazing. Now, in Saudi Arabia, by the way, of all of the terrorists, every one of them sent their families back to Saudi Arabia. They didn't send them to Iraq, they didn't send them -- every one, except one, their family, they were put on planes, and sent back to Saudi Arabia, the day before the World Trade Center came down. So, we have troops in Saudi Arabia, and they don't pay us, no. And then you look at our deficits and you look at what's going on. I travel the world, Steve, I see airports being built in Abu Dhabi. I see airports in Qatar, which they would prefer that you say "Cutter". I see airports being built in different parts of the world. We're like a Third World nation. You come into LaGuardia Airport, with the sign "I Love New York" that's made out of two by fours that are 25 years old and rotting, that they paint white, with a little apple in the middle. We're like a Third World nation. And they're only there for us. I mean, if you look at China, going back to China, we're rebuilding China. They're making all of our products. There's no reason, when Ben Bernanke said recently about jobs, that it's going to be five years before we get our real job picture back. Five years. And everybody said it was a long time. I said, "Why would it ever come back, if we're making all of our products in China?" So, it amazes me, the lack of intelligence that this country and our representatives seem to have. But we are going down, and it's very unfortunate, Steve. So, is this why, as you say, the U.S. is the laughingstock of the world? I believe they're the laughing -- I don't believe, I can tell you that I meet with many very important people from China, from other places. Now, of course, they're not going to speak the same way today that they did, let's say, six months ago, before I started talking about the presidency. But they cannot believe they're getting away with these things. And, by the way, I'm not angry at them. I take my hat off to them. But they cannot believe they get away with what they're getting away with. And, yes, this country is the laughingstock of the world. We are the whipping post of the world. Reagan Wins So, among recent U.S. presidents, which one do you think has done the best job? Which one do you like? Which one do you think you could model yourself on? Well, to me, there's no contest. I mean, I think Ronald Reagan was one of the great presidents, period, not just recently. I thought he had the demeanor. I thought he had the bearing. I thought he had the thought process. I just thought it was very interesting – people forget Iran. They had our hostages, and Jimmy Carter was the president, and it was pathetic. We'd still have those hostages there today, if a Jimmy Carter were still president. And Ronald Reagan said something to the effect that, "They won't be there one day, if I'm president." As soon as he was elected, amazingly, the hostages were released. It was amazing, right? But it wasn't amazing to me. And he meant it. He wasn't playing games, he meant it. "They will not be there for one day." He didn't even say, "Return the hostages." He said, "They will not be there for one day." As soon as the election was over, the hostages were released. Had Jimmy Carter won that election -- would've been a very sad day for the country, for a lot of other reasons -- but that whole hostage situation. We had respect. We were respected as a nation. And that's one of the reasons I really loved Ronald Reagan, as president. Indian Casino Scam The casino/hotel business. Nevada's taken a hit, Atlantic City's taken a hit. Do you see it starting to come back, either with the consumer or businesses? How is that trending now? Well, it's become a very competitive business. And you know, well, you covered me over the years with the casino business. I made a lot of money in the casino business, early on, when I had them private. I then levered them up, was able to take the money out, did very well with it. I invested in Manhattan and other places, and took them public. And so, they were always -- when I really didn't run them very much, when they were public, they were always highly levered. And again, took them public, and sort of sold them. But I've watched the casino business over the years, and it can be a wonderful business, but today, there's so much competition, whether it's Las Vegas or Atlantic City. And I guess, in particular, Atlantic City. And what's happened is, you have Indian casinos all over the place. Right. And to be honest, I mean, somebody ought to look into getting some tax from them, because they call themselves sovereign lands. They talk about their sovereign land. Talk about cigarette taxes. And yet, by the way, federal government built. Right, no cigarette taxes, no nothing. "And by the way, we need a highway, because a lot of people are coming. Federal government: Build a highway right to our reservation, which is a sovereign nation, we're not going to pay for the highway. And build schools, we want school aid, we want this aid, we want every form of aid, but as far as taxes are concerned, we're not going to pay any." So, they make the Chinese look amateurs. They're making a fortune. And they have, really hurt and/or destroyed the casino industry in this country. And what you do, in terms of the ones that have to pay taxes. Plus, they give you odds, they give you this, they give you all sorts of things, because they're not paying taxes. So, what's happened with the Indian reservations is absolutely unbelievable. The lobbyists have done an unbelievable job. Many of them aren't Indians, you know. I had a very famous statement, "They don't look like Indians to me." And they put it on 60 Minutes, and you know what the end of 60 Minutes was? And I didn't relent from that statement. I went before Congress, and they said, "How dare you make that statement?" And I'm sitting here, with a roomful of people, that looked just like you, Steve, and just like me. And they have less Indian blood, maybe, than we do, okay? And they're running reservations, and I'm saying to myself, "They don't look like Indians," and I didn't relent. And then, at the end of the 60 Minutes piece, the conclusion was that Trump is right. So, it's a scam, and it's huge, it's huge numbers of dollars. It's billions and billions of dollars. And the Indian reservations really have hurt other places, like Las Vegas and like Atlantic City, which pay a lot of tax. Commercial real estate. What do you see happening there? Is it, some areas doing okay, others not? Or is there a national trend? Well, New York is doing great, I will tell you. Whether it's 40 Wall Street, or whether Trump Tower, or any of the other things that we own, is doing great. Outside of New York is a whole different ballgame. You know, it's funny, every time something comes up in New York, I want to buy it. And I bid. And I say, "I'm going to get it, because I'm way over paying," and somebody buys it for twice as much as I'm bidding. So, New York is doing well. Certain prime areas are doing well. I'm in lots of different areas. We're in Los Angeles, we have a lot of land right on the ocean, on the Pacific Ocean. And it's sort of good if you have -- one thing I really have learned, and I hate the expression, "Location, location, location," because it's so overused. Because I've seen a lot of guys with good locations lose their shirt. And I've seen a lot of really smart people with not such good locations make a fortune. So, I always say talent over location. But I just notice that when you have that right piece of property, whatever it might be, including location, it tends to work well in good times and in bad times. But the city of New York, itself, is doing well. Some other locations throughout the country are doing really well. I have a lot of things in Palm Beach. Palm Beach is through the roof. Palm Beach is doing fantastically. It had its only setback, I remember, in the 1990s, where you covered me, when things were very tough and lots of guys were going bankrupt. And as you know, I never did, but I had some tough times in early-1990. And I remember that Palm Beach never went down. And this time, it was the only place in the whole country where actually housing values stayed the same and rose, even during what I call the real estate depression, the Great Real Estate Depression of 1990. And it's very interesting, because now, I look at Palm Beach, and it did finally take a hit, after all these years, and it was a Bernie Madoff hit. Because he was ground zero, relative to Palm Beach. I mean, Palm Beach was Bernie Madoff territory. And now, Palm Beach is doing fantastically well. It's really doing well again. You know, it took a while to get rid of that Madoff. What he took out of that community was unbelievable, billions. But now, Palm Beach is doing very well. But overall, I think commercial real estate's doing okay, in some areas, it's doing great. And are the banks going to get through this cycle? Well, the funny thing is that the commercial real estate never really hit the banks so badly. They kept talking about, and I'd read, also, in Forbes and lots of other places watch, as they said, "Oh, the next big cycle's commercial." It's never really hit, because it didn't get as bad as people thought and, you know, you restructure loans. You still have tenants. Yeah, and tenants came, enough tenants came. And you'd also make deals with banks. So, it never really hit. You know, we thought that the next big -- we had the big residential meltdown -- and the next big was going to be the commercial. The commercial never happened. And this commercial cycle was much different. Because there wasn't that much product. If you remember, in the 1990s, there were so many buildings being built, and they were empty all over the place. You never really had that, because you didn't have the money, the banks didn't loan the money, and you didn't have the money to build. So, this cycle was much different. But the big meltdown for commercial has not happened, and won't happen, because we're long past the date. And some commercial actually is doing very well. The one thing with the banks is that they're not loaning money. I mean, they're not loaning money if you want to buy a house. They're not loaning money to people with all the vacant houses and empty houses that you have all over the place. The banks are not doing their job. They're not giving money to people that want to buy a house, even at a half price, and prices that are a lot lower than half. And until they start putting out money -- you know, they were given a lot of money, but they're not loaning it. Now, if I want to finance Trump Tower, or a building where you have great tenants like Gucci and others, sitting there, paying rent, they're all over the place. But if you want to build something, or if you want a loan, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, money for a house someplace -- they're not doing their job. Are your kids more conservative than you? Well, I try to teach them. I don't think the answer is yes. I try to teach them to be a little bit conservative, because they've seen some good times and they've seen some very smart deals that we've made over the past number of years. And we've done a lot of great licensing deals, where we licensed the name Trump, and we've made a lot of money with that. And the beauty of that is that we want to see everything be successful. But the beauty of that is you don't have the risk that a developer would have. If a job is good, it's good. That's wonderful. But if a job is bad, we don't have $250 million or $400 million into it. We have nothing into it. And yet, we get a big chunk of it, and lots of other good things. So, it's been a formula that I think nobody's done like we've done. And nobody's come close to doing it like we've done. We've had some wonderful successes with that. But I'm trying to get them to be conservative, because they haven't really seen times like you and I have witnessed over the past. How do you teach them? Because, obviously, mistakes are painful. But you do learn from them. That sort of get their feet wet, without getting boiled? Well, I watch them, and I, they're really capable kids, they love what they're doing. And if they didn't love it, they wouldn't be doing it well. But I do watch them, and we're careful as to what deals we make. And I just want them to be very conservative. And honestly, they don't have to make deals. They can just run what we have, and lead a very nice life. I say, "What do you want to risk a lot of money for, when we have all of this stuff happening, that's so positive?" But we're very, very conservative in what we do. And yet, I bid on things, and it's very hard today. I mean, things are happening that -- I don't know if that's good or bad, because last time when things were happening, all of a sudden people said, "Look at these mistakes." But when I bid on things, the things usually sell for much more money than we would think that they should sell for. You once said, in terms of real estate, you don't retire, for some reason, you just stay with it, can't let it go. I don't know what it is about real estate people, but they get old. But they never retire. I don't think I've ever had a friend that retired in real estate. And I think what it is, our face goes down the tubes, but we can build a beautiful building someplace, and we view the building as a reflection of us. And whether it's Harry Helmsley, who was a great guy, who finished, sadly, because he was a great, great real estate man. And he married Leona, and I mean, I know that story so well, because I knew him so well, he was such a great friend of mine. But very sad, the way he went out. He didn't retire in the true sense, he was just sort of forced to stop. But it was very, very sad the way that all ended. Because he was truly a great, brilliant real estate man. But people in this business, they seem not to stop. I mean, I know friends that are -- I used to be always the youngest. And now, I'm not the youngest anymore, by far. But I feel young. But I feel young in this business. Whereas, other friends of mine that, you know, they have a corporation, they have some company, they work at a big public company, and at 65 years, they're gone. It's, like, they retire. My father used to have an expression, because I told you he loved to work. And he used to say, "To retire is to expire." And I see it a lot. A friend of mine, who's the head of a bank, and he's a vibrant guy, and he retires. You see him two years later, and it's like, "What happened to him? Look at him, what happened?" So, I believe that you work, but for some reason, people in the real estate business just don't retire. There's no such thing as retirement. So, what do you do about succession? You have three up-and-comers. Well, I do. And maybe five. I really have good children. Your father, who was a friend of mine, who I thought the world of, the world of him, and he obviously did something right, because you've kept it all going beautifully with the so-called kids. It's a very tough decision, because you say, do you leave a bigger chunk to one? Do you break it up evenly? Do you do this? Do you do that? I think my inclination is to put -- for instance, Eric loves the club business. We've really built a big club business, and it's been doing well. We're on the cover of a major club magazine, that we're the most profitable one in the business now, and it's great. And we've done really well with it, and I like the business, it works for my personality. And Eric seems to love that business. And Don loves running buildings. He loves 40 Wall Street, he loves Trump Tower, he loves other buildings that we have. And I'm sort of thinking that if it keeps going like this, I can put one in charge of certain aspects. But it's very complex. In a way, it's the most complex thing. And you understand that through your family, and your children, and you know, what's going to happen here and there. It's a very, very important decision, and a very complex decision. And you and I have seen many fights over the years. And we've seen fights of individuals that are businesspeople, and we've seen family fights. And I would say -- and we could mention a couple of them -- but I would say the most vicious fights I've ever seen, whether it's Koch or Milstein or this or that, the most vicious fights are those inter-family fights, when it doesn't work. So, it really is a very important decision, as to what happens when we're gone. Well, hopefully neither of us will be gone. Hopefully, we'll never go. Donald, thank you. Thank you very much, Steve, an honor.