Transcript - Interview: Devin Nunes Interview on CNN's "At This Hour" - March 27, 2017 | Factba.se

Wolf Blitzer

00:00:00 - 00:00:04 (4 sec)

[In Progress] Devin Nunes, is joining us now live. Mr. Chairman, thanks very much for joining us.

Devin Nunes

00:00:04 - 00:00:05 (2 sec)

It's great to be with you tonight, Wolf. Thank you.

Wolf Blitzer

00:00:05 - 00:00:13 (8 sec)

So, why did you meet with a source on the White House grounds the evening before you came out in that news conference?

Devin Nunes

00:00:13 - 00:00:41 (28 sec)

Yes, Wolf, it's actually pretty common. Probably, at least once a week, if not more than that, we have to go to the executive branch in order to read classified intelligence. So, that could be the White House grounds. It could be the White House. It could be the Pentagon. It could be CIA. There's a number of places we go. And so I think Jake Tapper reported on this morning. I had spoke to him. This is something I had been working on for a very long time.

Devin Nunes

00:00:41 - 00:01:13 (33 sec)

I was concerned about Americans' identities being either not masked properly or, in fact, being unmasked in intelligence reports. This actually goes back to before Mr. Trump's, President Trump's famous tweet, as you know, that he talked about putting -- whether or not he was wiretapped at Trump Tower. And so I had been working this for a long time with many different sources, and needed a place that I could actually finally go, because I knew what I was looking for, and I could actually get access to what I needed to see.

Wolf Blitzer

00:01:13 - 00:01:28 (15 sec)

But did you use that SCIF -- and the SCIF is an acronym for a Sensitivity Compartment Information Facility -- did you use that SCIF on the White House grounds? Why not use a SCIF -- you have plenty of them up on the House side and the Senate side on Capitol Hill?

Devin Nunes

00:01:28 - 00:01:53 (25 sec)

Well, that is a very good question. So, here's the problem. The Congress has not been given this information, these documents. And that's the problem. So -- so, because the -- because this is executive branch, it was distributed widely through the executive branch. This was from November, December, and January. And these were reports, just let me reiterate -- this had nothing too with Russia, nothing to do with the Russian investigation.

Devin Nunes

00:01:53 - 00:02:20 (27 sec)

There was no way for the folks that I had been working with to actually -- to bring this forward to light. There was no way I could view that, because they couldn't get it to the House Intelligence Committee. Now, we had requested. On March 25. we sent a letter over to the appropriate intelligence agencies, asking that they provide us for all the Americans' names that were unmasked in November, December, and January, actually going back to June.

Devin Nunes

00:02:20 - 00:02:44 (24 sec)

And so we're hopeful that we're going to begin to get through those documents, those names. We think the NSA is providing the information sometime this week. It will take our investigators a while to go through it. But the bottom line is this, is that we have to protect the identities of Americans who are picked up in incidental collection, no matter who that is. It's one of the most important roles of the House Intelligence Committee.

Devin Nunes

00:02:44 - 00:02:48 (4 sec)

We are supposed to be doing oversight.

Wolf Blitzer

00:02:48 - 00:03:02 (14 sec)

So, just to be precise, the information you saw over at the Old Executive -- the Eisenhower Executive Office Building right next door to the West Wing of the White House, that information originated with the National Security Agency, the NSA?

Devin Nunes

00:03:02 - 00:03:17 (15 sec)

Well, I'm not going to tell you where I was at on the grounds, because, of course, those are all classified facilities. But what I will say is, is that across the whole I.C., we are very interested in seeing information across the whole I.C. What I... [Crosstalk]

Wolf Blitzer

00:03:17 - 00:03:19 (2 sec)

I.C. is the intelligence community.

Devin Nunes

00:03:19 - 00:03:47 (28 sec)

The intelligence community. Sorry for using acronyms like this. But the National Security Agency is primarily the -- you know, our number one source for our military operations that collect intelligence, collect signals intelligence. So, they're the big player in all of this. We're still going to need more information from the rest of the I.C., including the FBI. But, right now, we're just happy that the NSA is working overtime to get the committee this information, because we want to make sure that all Republicans and all Democrats can get access to this.

Wolf Blitzer

00:03:47 - 00:04:03 (16 sec)

But, Mr. Chairman, if you're trying to protect sources and methods -- and all of us understand that -- didn't you think it might be conspicuous for the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee to be visiting the White House complex at night? Wouldn't that, by itself, risk exposing your source?

Devin Nunes

00:04:03 - 00:04:11 (8 sec)

Well, don't believe everything you read, Wolf. It wasn't actually that exciting. I have read a lot of reports that aren't true.

Wolf Blitzer

00:04:11 - 00:04:13 (2 sec)

Well, tell us what is true. [Crosstalk]

Devin Nunes

00:04:13 - 00:04:34 (21 sec)

Number one, I wasn't sneaking on. It wasn't at night. It was in the middle of the -- you know, the sun was out. And I actually stopped and talked to several people along the way. Many foreign dignitaries were there, some I recognized. I said hello, had conversations with them. So, nobody was sneaking around. All it was, was just a place where I had to go to be able to review this information.

Wolf Blitzer

00:04:34 - 00:04:36 (2 sec)

Who cleared you for admission?

Devin Nunes

00:04:36 - 00:04:41 (5 sec)

Well, I'm not going to get into how that process works, but the White House has a process for... [Crosstalk]

Wolf Blitzer

00:04:41 - 00:04:43 (2 sec)

But was it a White House staffer?

Devin Nunes

00:04:43 - 00:04:53 (10 sec)

Look, Wolf, I'm not going to get into sources and methods and how we review documents, especially classified information. This happens all over the executive branch, and it's quite common.

Wolf Blitzer

00:04:53 - 00:04:58 (5 sec)

Because, eventually, these records -- you know how it works -- they're going to come out anyhow, right?

Devin Nunes

00:04:58 - 00:05:05 (7 sec)

Yes. And, look, as I said, this is nothing new. And we're -- it has nothing to do with the Russia investigation.

Wolf Blitzer

00:05:05 - 00:05:10 (5 sec)

So, why not disclose it now, if it's going to be released in the near-term?

Devin Nunes

00:05:10 - 00:05:32 (22 sec)

Because, look, this is not something -- sources and methods are kept very confidential. We invite whistle-blowers to come forward. In fact, we have had many people come forward to the committee in recent weeks, because there's been so much attention on this. And we want to continue to encourage that. If we start talking, disclosing sources and methods, who's ever going to come forward to the committee to bring us information?

Wolf Blitzer

00:05:32 - 00:05:43 (10 sec)

In addition going to that secure room to look over these documents, did you have other meetings at the White House? Did you meet with the president or any of his aides while you were there that night?

Devin Nunes

00:05:43 - 00:06:03 (20 sec)

No. No. And, in fact, I'm quite sure that people in the West Wing had no idea that I was there. Look, I go over there a lot. I go over there often for meetings and briefings to meet foreign dignitaries, all those sort of things. I go to all the agencies. It's part of the role of oversight. And all of our members go to the executive branch.

Wolf Blitzer

00:06:03 - 00:06:19 (16 sec)

But you understand how it would look. The next day, you're coming out, you're giving the president some comfort, and he said, you know, he was somewhat vindicated, if you will. You will understand how all of this looks and why it's causing such an uproar.

Devin Nunes

00:06:19 - 00:06:44 (25 sec)

I do. I completely do. But the fact of the matter remains that this is information that I had long before Mr. Trump even made his famous tweet. So, and, look, if it was -- if I really wanted to, I could have snuck on to the grounds late at night and probably nobody would have seen me, but I wasn't trying to hide. In fact, I stopped and talked to several people there just along the way, including, like I said, many foreigners.

Wolf Blitzer

00:06:44 - 00:06:54 (10 sec)

By holding the meeting on the White House grounds, it makes it appear that someone in the administration was coordinating the release of this information to you. Is that not the case?

Devin Nunes

00:06:54 - 00:07:11 (17 sec)

No, it's not the case. Like I said, this is something I had been working for a long time. And I had to find a way for me to have access to the information, because we couldn't get the information down to the committee. And this was -- you know, this was a way I could facilitate me getting that information.

Wolf Blitzer

00:07:11 - 00:07:27 (17 sec)

You have described your source as a whistle-blower. Was this person going around someone above him or her to provide you this information? Did the person who shared this information allowed you to access this information have clearance from his or her supervisors?

Devin Nunes

00:07:27 - 00:07:38 (10 sec)

I know that it's all Washington intrigue to find out about the sources and methods. And I will say the same thing I said to everybody else. And that is that, look, we're just not going to get into discussing... [Crosstalk]

Wolf Blitzer

00:07:38 - 00:07:49 (11 sec)

Well, when I hear the word whistle-blower -- you are the one who mentioned whistle-blower -- it usually means someone who's not authorized, but feels -- that person feels has a responsibility to share this kind of new information.

Devin Nunes

00:07:49 - 00:08:13 (24 sec)

Yes, so, we have a lot of people who give us information to our committee. There's lots of different ways that you can come forward. You can ask for official whistle-blower protections. You can be an informant to the committee. You can just provide information to the committee. A lot of it, there's nothing wrong. If we ask questions to people within the I.C., to officials, they're supposed to give the Oversight Committee the answers.

Devin Nunes

00:08:13 - 00:08:25 (11 sec)

And we want to encourage that activity. We don't want to discourage it. And any time I start to talk about who, what, why, when, where'd I go, it's not healthy. And it shouldn't be discussed in the public.

Wolf Blitzer

00:08:25 - 00:08:33 (9 sec)

Here's a question that jumped out at me. Why would you need to brief the White House on what you, yourself, have called executive branch documents?

Devin Nunes

00:08:33 - 00:09:00 (27 sec)

Well, because, remember, we get a lot of documents from the executive branch, whether it's the Department of Defense or CIA or others. We have to go to those agencies a lot of times to see them. I wasn't planning on going to the White House the next day. But after I was able to read what I read, I realized it had nothing to do with Russia, but had everything to do with individuals who were -- whose names were included into intelligence reports.

Devin Nunes

00:09:00 - 00:09:06 (6 sec)

I was very concerned, and I thought that the president of the United States should know. And that's why I went and told him.

Wolf Blitzer

00:09:06 - 00:09:20 (13 sec)

Let me turn to the contents of the reports that you've seen. And obviously, we have not seen those reports. Do they specifically name the president or quote him by name, otherwise known as unmasking?

Devin Nunes

00:09:20 - 00:09:40 (20 sec)

So I -- what I've said before on this, Wolf, is that -- is that we do know there was additional unmasking done. And I'll leave it at that. Hopefully, we can get the agencies to -- to get that information to us. In addition, there was information that looked like it was legally collected, but it was information on President Trump and his transition team.

Wolf Blitzer

00:09:40 - 00:09:41 (1 sec)

Was his name specifically mentioned?

Devin Nunes

00:09:41 - 00:09:50 (9 sec)

I can't get into that, because these are clearly classified reports. And so until we can get all of them -- but I can tell you, it's very clear that it was on President Trump and his transition team.

Wolf Blitzer

00:09:50 - 00:10:01 (11 sec)

What about current White House officials, Trump campaign staffers, Trump family members? And all of this happened after the election, during the transition, not during the campaign, right?

Devin Nunes

00:10:01 - 00:10:29 (28 sec)

That's correct. What I saw appeared to be like it was from November, December, and January. And I hope that people pay attention to this. This is -- this is a real issue. And what I'm raising here is vital to national security. We cannot allow Americans' names to be either masked improperly or unmasked improperly. And we have a duty and a responsibility to get to the bottom, to see if this was done properly or not.

Wolf Blitzer

00:10:29 - 00:10:31 (2 sec)

Was there anything illegal?

Devin Nunes

00:10:31 - 00:10:46 (15 sec)

It depends. We don't know yet. We do know that there was one name. The only crime that we know has been committed so far, assuming that General Flynn was picked up on some type of incidental collection, that was illegally leaked, if that was, in fact, the case.

Wolf Blitzer

00:10:46 - 00:10:49 (3 sec)

Any other names illegally leaked, unmasked?

Devin Nunes

00:10:49 - 00:10:53 (4 sec)

We don't -- we don't know yet, but there are additional names that were unmasked.

Wolf Blitzer

00:10:53 - 00:10:55 (2 sec)

Because previously, you suggested there were.

Devin Nunes

00:10:55 - 00:11:00 (5 sec)

Yes -- no, no. There are additional names that were unmasked. And that's what raised concern to me.

Wolf Blitzer

00:11:00 - 00:11:04 (4 sec)

But you saw actual names in the reports you read at the White House conference?

Devin Nunes

00:11:04 - 00:11:09 (5 sec)

Yes, it was pretty clear who they were talking about, you know, what the reports were referring to.

Wolf Blitzer

00:11:09 - 00:11:14 (5 sec)

But you were surmising, you were concluding who the names were. Did you actually see names?

Devin Nunes

00:11:14 - 00:11:30 (16 sec)

For the most part, they -- they were masked. But like I said, there was additional unmasking, which is why we're trying to get the intelligence agencies to cooperate and provide us the information, so we can figure out who asked for that name to be unmasked and who the name was.

Wolf Blitzer

00:11:30 - 00:11:39 (9 sec)

Because you say for the most part -- elaborate. I want -- if you could be specific, were there specific names that were inappropriately, if not illegally, unmasked?

Devin Nunes

00:11:39 - 00:12:12 (33 sec)

So, I -- so, I don't know if -- I think, inappropriately, is for sure the case. But what we should do here is we should wait until we get all the evidence and -- to our committee. That's going to take a while. It's going to take a while for us to comb through it. But what I will say -- and I'll be -- and I'll be as clear as I can on this, it bothered me. As somebody who supports our national security apparatus, it bothered me that this level of information would be included in intelligence reports, because it just wasn't necessary, from my point of view.

Devin Nunes

00:12:12 - 00:12:13 (1 sec)

Wolf Blitzer

00:12:13 - 00:12:28 (16 sec)

Were the calls -- were the calls in question, the transition team calls that individuals were unmasked, were they involving foreign governments intercepted by U.S. intelligence or discussions by foreign governments about calls they may have had with Trump officials?

Devin Nunes

00:12:28 - 00:12:50 (21 sec)

I'm -- I can't get into that, because as you know, a lot of what we do is classified in nature. But I will say that it had absolutely nothing to do with Russia. All the reports I saw had nothing to do with Russia, which is why I thought it was completely appropriate for me to, the next day, to go and talk to the president about this and why I thought it was -- why I thought this needed his attention.

Devin Nunes

00:12:50 - 00:13:02 (12 sec)

And look, we had been asking the -- we already suspected this. I mean, I had people who had already told me this existed. And we've been asking the agency since March 15 to provide us the names that were unmasked.

Wolf Blitzer

00:13:02 - 00:13:10 (8 sec)

But you -- and let me -- I know you have to go vote. And I'd love you to come back after you vote, because there's a bunch of other questions I'd love to ask you.

Devin Nunes

00:13:10 - 00:13:12 (2 sec)

This is a lot of questions.

Wolf Blitzer

00:13:12 - 00:13:25 (14 sec)

I know it's a lot of questions, but this is important. And you have -- you know, you have the answers. But very quickly, before you vote -- and hopefully you'll come right back after the vote -- do you understand why it might have been better to avoid that kind of meeting at the White House?

Devin Nunes

00:13:25 - 00:13:50 (25 sec)

Yes, but, look, when I -- when I went over there, I was expecting to see what had been described to me. I was not expecting to see what I saw. And that's why there was -- there was nothing clandestine about it. It was simply just going through there, saying hi to people, going in, looking at what I needed to look at, figuring out it had nothing to do with Russia at all. It had everything to do about American citizens being caught up in surveillance of some kind.

Devin Nunes

00:13:50 - 00:13:55 (5 sec)

And I thought that it was important for the president to know, and that's why the following day I went and briefed him.

Wolf Blitzer

00:13:55 - 00:14:07 (12 sec)

And one final question. I know you've got to go and vote. Those four tweets from three weeks ago that the president leveled those charges against President Obama for ordering the wiretapping of Trump Tower. You don't believe that, do you?

Devin Nunes

00:14:07 - 00:14:14 (7 sec)

No, I mean, I said just days after that, that that didn't happen. Days after that. And largely, the media ignored it; largely...

Wolf Blitzer

00:14:14 - 00:14:17 (3 sec)

So he should not -- he should not feel vindicated?

Devin Nunes

00:14:17 - 00:14:40 (23 sec)

Well, look, I'm not going to get into how people feel or don't feel. I just know that I was very clear with all of the media and the American public that I didn't think that those tweets were accurate. However, I will say -- I said this the whole time -- I am concerned about additional unmasking and if any other surveillance activities were used. And look, clearly, that appears to be the case in this -- in this matter.

Wolf Blitzer

00:14:40 - 00:14:48 (8 sec)

Mr. Chairman, you've been very generous with your time. I know you've got to run and vote. If you can come back, we'll continue this conversation. Thanks so much for joining us.