Live from CNN in Washington, this is Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer. Welcome back to Late Edition. He's been called the king of New York real estate, the master of the deal, or sometimes just the Donald. But no matter what people call Donald Trump, they're always talking about him. He's a true American phenomenon. And lately even more people are talking about him, now that he's the centerpiece of a new TV reality show. [Begin Clip] This is a tough one. You're fired. Donald Trump may be the year's most unlikely new TV star. But even before The Apprentice premiered Hello, everybody. The son of a real estate developer, Trump turned his father's company into what Trump, modestly or not, calls an ever- expanding business universe. Some folks joke that it's hard to find a major Manhattan building that doesn't bear Trump's name, but the empire isn't limited to New York real estate. It includes casinos and resorts, golf courses, even the Miss Universe pageant. For a while, there was even an airline, the Trump shuttle. Trump was a billionaire by the time he turned 40, but his name turned up in gossip columns as often as business columns. His marriages and divorces were fodder for newspaper tabloids and late- night TV comedians. While that kind of scrutiny might make your average billionaire publicity-shy, Trump relished it, making conspicuous appearances at trendy nightclubs and gala events. The glamour, the stars, the star power, everybody here. Trump also authored books, including The Art of the Deal. And after bouncing back from a financial slump in the early 1990s He also promoted a board game based on his career and even flirted with running for president of the United States on the Reform Party ticket. From developer to deal maker, to celebrity to political hopeful. Maybe the next step was inevitable. After years of making guest appearances on television, Trump got his own reality show. Behind me is Planet Hollywood. The women will manage the restaurant tonight. Devising tests for would-be entrepreneurs who would like to work for him. I don't like the job you're doing, you are fired. And firing those who fail. [End Clip] And Donald Trump shared some of his secrets of money, happiness and success when we met in New York City this week. [Begin Clip] Donald Trump, thanks for joining us. Did you ever in your wildest imagination expect this TV show to be this successful? Well, I'm very honored to be the largest developer in New York. I never thought I was going to be a television star, if you could call it that. But the show has turned out to be amazing. It's been... Why? Why has it resonated with the American public the way it has? I think it's the fact that it's in New York. It's the fact that we have these wonderful contestants. It is a great group. And you can call them participants in the show. They are wonderful. You know, I'm not going to say as to how good a job I do, but I was honored when Frank Rich wrote about me in The New York Times this weekend because a big fan of The Twilight Zone is Frank Rich It was must-watch TV. You and I are almost the same age. I remember those days. But the fact is that this has been a huge hit. How much involvement do you personally get in producing it? Well, I'm very involved with the show, and the board room in particular, and the assignment of tasks. Mark Burnett, who's a great friend of mine, and the producer of the show, has done an amazing job. The cinematography of New York is -- I mean, beyond even the contest and the tasks, the cinematography is incredible. They say its a love letter, a postcard to New York. It shows the beauty of the city. It also shows the viciousness and the toughness of New York. But it shows the beauty. And there is no more beautiful place on Earth, and there's no tougher place. I told Mark when you watch Survivor So, you know, if you would have said that to me a few months ago, after I learned that 95 percent of the shows that go on television do not get good ratings and go off the air within weeks, I would have said, you know, That's a shock. But Mark really has shown New York and we really -- it was a very important element of the show. What does it say about our times? Because in life, as you know, timing often is everything. What does it say about the times in which we live, that this show, The Apprentice Well, I think it's a little bit of a reflection on business. And, again, if you believe Frank Rich and the New York Times, it has a little bit to do with the fact that people are being fired. And people want to see people get fired. And perhaps that's a somewhat negative reflection of what's happening in the world of business today, but I just think it's a program that -- you know, I don't like to look too deeply into it. I just think it's a program that people really love. I'm honored when they talk about this as a societal program, that this is a reflection of society, and they get into a lot of different psychological things that perhaps never existed in our minds when we did it. But it has certainly hit a chord. I mean, they had 29 million viewers the other week. And it's certainly has hit a chord. When you say You're fired Well, yes, I've fired a lot of people. Generally I like other people to fire, because it's always a lousy task. But I have fired many people. But, you know, the words You're fired didn't happen for the show. It was And, all of a sudden, I'm sitting there, and it's really essentially like live television. You can't do much about it. It's, as far as I'm concerned, reality. I don't want double takes. I don't want any of this. And I came out and said, You are fired. And everyone went crazy. I mean And they heard the words You're fired I mean, there's no arguing. There is no anything. There is no beating around the bush. You're fired is a very strong term. And it's become the signature phrase for the show. Who would have thought? Well, who would have thought? And I walked down Fifth Avenue the other day and there were hundreds of people shouting out from buses and cars, and everything else, You're fired What qualities, characteristics, are you looking for in an apprentice? Well, look. Always you have to be born with this. And it's wonderful, and especially in a show like yours, which is so political motivated, and you cater to all of the great politicians and politicos out there. But the phrase that all men are created equal is a wonderful phrase All men are not created equal. Some are born with a genius and some are born without. Now, you need that. If you don't have that, you can forget it. But beyond that, I think people really have to enjoy what they're doing, because that comes through to me, and that comes through to anybody else that they work for. You have to love it, and you have to be willing to go through a wall. If there is a concrete wall in front of you, Wolf, you have to be able to go through that concrete wall. You have to just have that ability never to stop, just to keep going forward. Just don't stop. When did you discover you had that characteristic? Were you ever an apprentice? Well, I worked -- I started working for my father. And before that, I was really -- when I was going to the Wharton School of Finance, I was doing apartment deals -- little apartment deals where I'd buy a little house or something in Philadelphia, and I'd flip it and sell it. And I was just doing little things like that. So I guess I had, sort of, a natural entrepreneurial thing. But I really went to work for a great guy known as my father. And he liked the job I did. A lot of people have asked, Did he ever fire you? Were you ever fired? My father loved the job I did. I did a great job for my father. I mean, a really good job. And so he was never even close to it. I know many fathers have fired their sons, but my father was very happy with the job that I did, so I was never fired. You happy with the way your kids are coming along? I think so, Wolf. They're smart. They're good students. They're very young at this point. But they're coming into the business. My one son is in the business now and he's doing a good job. So so far, so good. [End Clip] When we come back, Donald Trump's tips for making it big in business. More of my interview. That's coming up. You're watching Late Edition Welcome back to Late Edition. More now of my interview with Donald Trump. [Begin Clip] If people are watching this show this right now, and you could offer them one or two nuggets of advice -- they want to get into the business world -- right now -- and I know you're working on a new book which we'll talk about -- what is that advice? Well, it's a great time to be in the world of business, this is a great time to make money. People say, Do you have the same opportunity today as you had years ago? And I said So, I mean, what I tell people, frankly, is, always do something that you love, because, if you don't love it, you'll never be successful at it. So that's the most important thing? You've got to really be passionate? I think you have to. If you didn't love what you're doing, if you didn't love being up here interviewing me or whoever else you're interviewing, you wouldn't be good at it, you wouldn't be what you are. Well, I'm blessed, and you're blessed. You get up every morning, and you love what you're doing. But most people out there, they dread having to go to work, the jobs that they're doing. Well, usually -- and it sounds like a lot of people out there, and there are a lot of people -- but generally speaking you should change until such time as you find something that you really like. But they don't have that luxury. They've got to bring food home for their... Well, sometimes you have to use some imagination. I mean, I see people with jobs that are so bad -- friends of mine, they have such bad jobs. I say, Why don't you move? They could move. They're afraid to move. They're afraid to do something. You know, I know people that love being in the mines. They love it. And then there are people that don't. They really should try to get out. I mean, there are a lot of great stories about that. But you have to try and do something that you love. That doesn't mean being an entrepreneur and building buildings all over. That means a job. Get a job that you love. Otherwise you're just not going to be good at it. You've obviously made a ton of money. When is enough enough? Well, it's a game. I have a lot of fun with the game. Money is a little bit of a scorecard, but I don't do it for the money. I do it because I really enjoy it. I love the creative process. I'm building a tremendous building in Chicago now. I just finished a number of great buildings in New York. I'm building a few more right now. I mean, under construction. I'm doing something in California two miles along the Pacific Ocean in Los Angeles. I'm building a golf course that will be better than Pebble Beach. It's going to be amazing, Trump National Golf Club. It'll open in June. I'm doing things that are just creative things for me, and I love them. So, as long as I'm healthy, as long as I have my health, and my imagination, and the brain is working well, I'll keep going. It's interesting, in my business, in the real estate business, guys are very old. Guys go into their 80s and 90s, and they're still doing deals. In a lot of businesses, they sort of retire when they're 65 or 70, and they retire. So, I think I want to go as long as I can go. I think that's smart. It's the only way to do it. I think you'd go crazy if you were just playing golf or something like that. I love playing golf, but after about four rounds, I'd say, That's about enough for me. I'm with you. What about you as a boss? Would you like to work for someone like Donald Trump? Well, I think I'm fair. I think, if one thing came out of the program that's really good for me -- it's hard to believe -- it softened my image. People, I guess, thought of me as much tougher, almost like a flame-thrower, but erratically tough and crazily tough. And, you know, I went to the Wharton School of Finance, I got very good marks, I was a good student, it's the best business school in the world, as far as I'm concerned, but it's rated the best business school in the United States. You know, I was a good student. I did everything that -- and yet I had this image of being a flame-thrower, and I'm not. So, if the show did anything, it softened the image. And it's, sort of, funny that that happened, because basically all I do is, I fire people all the time. You know, I'm firing people every show. Now, there's long boardroom scenes and everything else, but somehow I have softened my image, and maybe that's not the worst thing in the world. You probably saw the criticism from Jeffrey Sonnenfeld from the Yale School of Management. He wrote this. He said, Many CEOs I talk with shudder at this ill-timed portrait of corporate leadership just when we need to restore trust in corporate values. Well, I don't know Professor Sonnenfeld, but, you know, he couldn't get into Wharton, as far as I'm concerned. I don't think he's living in the real world. He also said there's too much sex in the boardroom. Well, business is also about sex. I mean, it does enter into it. And I just think he's not a real-world person. He's a man who is good at teaching people from the books, but I don't think he has real world experience, and I don't think a guy like Sonnenfeld would do very well in the business world. I really don't. I don't think he's -- I think it's just the opposite. He's, sort of, saying this isn't necessarily the real world. Well, the fact is, I don't think he's living in the real world, because The Apprentice really is very much reality. It's the way -- when you see that, the way these young people are behaving in the real world of business that you live in, that's what you see happening? Except that we have it condensed, that's absolutely right. There's hatred, whether it's racism or not, you see a lot of tones of it. I happen to not agree with Amoroso, with some of the things he said about some of the other contestants. Did someone accuse her or call her the N word? I don't believe so at all. We had cameras, many, many cameras running 24 hours a day, and it was not the -- the person that was accused was just sick to her stomach at the thought of it, and I totally believe that. So, you know, I mean, there's so many different elements running through The Apprentice that are amazing. There's love. There's hate. There is potential racism and certainly accusations of it. Unfortunately You've gone through a lot in your career. Somebody said the other day, you've proven there is not only a second act, there's a third act, the fourth act. You remember this cover from People magazine? Poor Donald. Right. Right. July 9th, 1990. First a mid-life crisis Right. When you see this now, what goes through your mind? Well, I have that cover right outside. I'm very proud of that cover. The real estate markets in 1990 crashed. I had billions and billions of dollars in debt. I had many friends that went bankrupt. You were going down. Well, I was, but I worked hard. And, you know, my company today is a much bigger, stronger company than it ever was in the 1980s or 1990s even. But, you know, I was in trouble if I didn't get really back on the stick and start working. The real estate markets crashed. Now, I don't want to blame the real estate markets, because I always made a lot of money in bad markets. I love bad markets. You can you do very well in a bad market. But I wasn't focused particularly. I was in Europe watching all the great fashion shows and I wasn't necessarily interested in the dresses. Some people said I was much more interested in what was in the dresses. But I had a lot of fun, and I had a good time. But then I realized it was time to stop the fun. One of the major business magazines did an article in the late '80s, Everything He Touches Turns to Gold. And I started to believe that. And I figured Well, around 1990, I went back to work. And it was an amazing thing, because my company today is so big, so strong, so good. And I'm, you know, the biggest real estate person in New York now, and I'm very honored by it. Forbes Magazine says that you're worth $2.5 billion. Is that right? Well, I never like to argue with them. I think Forbes is a great magazine. You know, I've always disputed that. I think if you take my assets, it's worth a lot more than that. But Forbes has always said -- not always, I guess, recently they've said I'm worth $2.5 billion. But, you know, I think that's lot of money. But I wouldn't -- would I sell my assets for $2.5 billion? No. How much do you think your bottom line is? Well, I don't want to say. But it's a lot. Twice that? It's a lot. $2.5 billion is a lot too. That's nothing to sneeze at. No, I agree. Hey, look, I think Forbes is a great magazine. I like Forbes a lot, and I like Steve Forbes and everybody in the Forbes family. I just think that -- I wouldn't sell my assets for $2.5 billion. What gives you, in life, the greatest pleasure? Well, I love success. I mean, once you get around the family thing, because family is always the most important, I love the creativity of what I do, whether it's building a course better than Pebble Beach, whether it's building a great building in Chicago, or opposite the United Nations, or on Park Avenue and 59th Street, or building the largest job ever approved by the New York City Planning Commission in New York; that's a great achievement on the West Side called Trump Place. I mean I have just fun. 40 Wall Street was a building that was empty. It was 72 stories tall. It was a total disaster. I bought it, and it became a total winner. I have great fun with that. Or buying Miss Universe, and making it such a big success for NBC, and, you know, it's a highly rated program now, and when I bought it, it wasn't so successful and the Miss Universe contest -- so it doesn't necessarily have to be in real estate. But the thing that I really love is the creation of buildings and the creation of things that are hard. And this notion of Donald Trump as the international playboy, is that exaggerated or is that real? No, it's very exaggerated. I mean, I've had a girlfriend for a long time, Alani. I think there's nothing better than having a great relationship. And there's nothing better than having a good marriage. You know, because I've just met your wife, and she's great. So I assume your marriage is -- I hope your marriage is good, but I assume it is. But there is nothing better than having a great marriage, in my opinion. There is nothing more beautiful, and there is nothing more important. You just -- it's just a great thing. So you're beating me. So far you're beating me. [End Clip] Coming up, Donald Trump on whether his future has politics there. We'll get to that. More of my special interview with him. First though, we'll have a quick check of what's making news at this hour, including political protests in Taiwan. Plus, the former empress of Iran: on her memories, her late husband, the shah, and her country. Much more of Late Edition Welcome back to Late Edition. More now of my interview with real estate magnate and now TV star Donald Trump. [Begin Clip] You remember this interview that we had in this room, you and me -- that would be the last time I interviewed you -- what you were thinking of doing at that time? Well, I wasn't thinking so much about it. I, for some reason, get good poll numbers. When they put me in polls, everyone says I should run for president, I should be president, I should be the guy that negotiates all the deals for this country, and all of that. You had you created an exploratory committee to run for president. Well, what happened is there was a poll that came out that Donald Trump would be a great president, and a lot of people liked it. And all of a sudden everybody said I was running for president. I never said I was running for president, as you know. But you hired Roger Stone, a well-known political consultant. No, I didn't hire him. Roger's a friend of mine. He's a good guy. And he looked at the possibility of it. And I just decided I didn't want to do it. It was, sort of, interesting. I met to Miami and I met with people after people. And I met with the families of the folks that -- those wonderful people that got shot down by the Cuban MiGs. And they were like in little Piper Tripacers. And I said, you know, That's pretty sad stuff. You see some of the terrible things that go on. Now, do you solve that? It's never really solved. You understand. There is always tragedy. And I realized that I probably should just stick to what I'm doing; it's just something that I enjoy much more. I mean, there are politicians that would meet with people on an hourly basis and that can really do it very well. It just really, probably isn't for me. You know the success of this TV show is going to once again fuel speculation, Well Well, I know both people that are running for president, as an example. And I think they're both very good. I mean, I know the president, I know John. I think it's going to be a very, very tough race. Who do you like better? I won't say right now. But I think it's going to be a very, very tough race. It's going to be very interesting to see what happens. It sounds like it's getting already a little rough and tough, although maybe in the line of work that you do, this is relatively tame compared to the business world. What is your sense? It's going to be tough. It's going to be a tough election. It's going to be right down to the wire. It may not end up being such a close election. You know, a lot of these elections that start off where it looks neck-and-neck all of a sudden turns out to be a landslide. But I believe the Democrats have a very strong chance of winning this election. And I think the president is going to be working very hard to see that he wins. It's going to be very -- I think it's going to be a very vicious battle, more so than almost any that we've seen so far. Why is that? Why do you think so? Because there's just more press today. There's more of you guys looking to, you know, make it that way. And you will egg the candidates on and make them say things that they shouldn't have said, and they're going to say, Oh But to a large extent, it's just because the press is so much bigger today than it was in the past. It just gets bigger every year. You travel all over the world, meet with world leaders. Do you believe what John Kerry said is true, that world leaders tell him they want Bush out and him in? Well, I will say this. And again, I like the president very much, but I think that this -- this is not a very popular country right now. It's interesting, New York City is trying to get the Olympics, and I'm all for it. But I think it's tough to give New York City the Olympics right now, because I think a lot of countries that would have voted for us strongly right after September 11th maybe don't like us so much anymore. Whose fault is that? Well, I don't want to say. But there's a mindset that maybe this country is not the popular country that it was. And maybe it shouldn't be such a popular country. I mean, we're not running a popularity contest. Is it right for the president -- and you're a New Yorker, a lifelong New Yorker -- to run images of 9/11 in campaign commercials? Well, I know that was a terrible big uproar. I did not see a problem with it. And that's life, that's reality, there was a 9/11 and he happened to be president. Why shouldn't he run an image? There were a lot of people that came out against that. I didn't see why there was such an uproar over that. No. And you speak as a New Yorker who lived through that era. You remember 9/11. Hey, he showed images 9/11. Well, he was president with 9/11. So, I mean, I don't think there's any misrepresentation in that. Some people thought it was distasteful. I don't think it was distasteful. Do you identify more as a Democrat or Republican? Well, you'd be shocked if I said that in many cases I probably identify more as Democrat. And I think you'd probably be shocked... On social issues? You know, it's interesting, I've been now around long -- you know, I think of myself as a young guy, but I'm not so young anymore. And I've been around for a long time. And it just seems that the economy does better under the Democrats than the Republicans. Now, it shouldn't be that way. But if you go back, I mean it just seems that the economy does better under the Democrats... Well, it certainly did well under Clinton. But I wouldn't suggest it was so great under Jimmy Carter. That's true. That's true. If you remember, the interest rates... No, I know. I know. Jimmy Carter was not in the same thing. But certainly we had some very good economies under Democrats, as well as Republicans. But we've had some pretty bad disaster under the Republicans. You want... Including a thing called the Depression. The Depression was bad, as we all remember. This new book that you're writing right now, it's going to come out very soon, right? That's right. It comes out actually on Friday. Oh, really? So it's going to be huge. They're probably publishing an initial run of what? Five hundred thousand books, which is huge, which is huge. Random House is doing 500,000 initial publishing, which is one of the biggest in a long, long time. They expect this book to be very big. I hope it's going to be very big because it's always nice to have a winner. It goes beyond The Art of the Deal Well, The Art of the Deal they say is the biggest selling business book of all time. It sold 3.5 million copies And Random House came to me. They said, you know, Because of the success of your show I think it this takes it to the next level. The title is very descriptive. The people at Random House had a name called The Buck Starts Here. And If we're going to do that way, let's just do it -- and I've never seen this before -- let's do it How to Get Rich. How to get rich. And it's Trump: How To Get Rich. And I tell my theories on how to make money. Give me one good theory. Well, I think the one theory is, again, you have to enjoy what you're doing. You're never going to be rich, you're never going to be successful if you don't enjoy what you're doing. And this is the lesson that you want people to emerge with? Well, that's one of the many lessons, but, you know, there are many. But... You got a TV hit, you got buildings, you got golf courses, casinos, you got a great family. You got a new book that's coming out that's probably going to be number one best-seller. What else does Donald Trump want to do in his life? I think it's just a continuation, honestly. Life -- this is sad. No politician would say this, so you know I'm not going to be a politician. Life is what you do while you're waiting to die. Sad. Horrible statement. I hate to say it, but I say it, you know, because it's true. Life is what you do while you wait to die. Have fun. Just enjoy it. Enjoy what you're doing. If you don't enjoy what you're doing, it doesn't mean anything. Donald Trump, thanks. Thank you. [End Clip] And from Donald Trump to a woman who witnesses one of the dramatic events of the 20th century, the fall of the shah of Iran. The former empress, Farah Pahlavi, is here to talk about her home, her exile and her new book, An Enduring Love: My Life with the Shah. Late Edition will be right back. [Commercial Break]